***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Hurricane]

Narine is fairly sensible and will only play the IPL game if he is given permission to do so. He will push his case and then drop it if he needs to. If he doesn't drop his pleas and plays the final then the answer is NO WW he will not become an ATG as tests are not a priority for him.

 

[viriya]

WICB is being idiotic here - Narine would still get back a full 5 days before the Test match. Don't they get a % of a player's IPL earnings?

 

[marc71178]

it's a bit ****ing stupid because McCullum will be playing in the same game, won't he?

McCullum doesn't have a WI contract though does he?

WICB has already altered the NOC once, so if theydemand a player returns then he should do, rather than playing in what is a domestic competition.

 

[Hurricane]

I think Marc is winning this debate.

 

[viriya]

WICB may have a contract but this situation makes no logical sense.. not letting him play in the first Test only helps the opposition - WICB might get to show off its strength but the players would only have more mistrust after something like this. Does anyone honestly believe that he needs to be in the squad 2 days earlier for "meaningful practice and developing the team ethic"?

It sounds like the WI IPL players got it wrong in that they gave WICB a June 1st deadline because that was the last day of IPL without considering the flight times. Seems like an honest mistake and the WICB not being flexible here just shows you why the WI players and the board have not seen eye-to-eye for the past decade or so.

I think the ECB would be the only other board that would do something like this - unsurprisingly they have player relationship issues as well.

From what I understand the SLC gets 10% of a player's IPL earnings - is that not the case with other boards?

 

[hendrix]

McCullum doesn't have a WI contract though does he?

WICB has already altered the NOC once, so if theydemand a player returns then he should do, rather than playing in what is a domestic competition.

Sunil Narine also has a contract to his IPL team, does he not? If WICB can demand he return, can Kolkata demand he stay?

Obviously Kolkata won't do that, but the point is that the contract is irrelevant in this case, just as the arbitrary deadline of June the 1st is.

 

[marc71178]

WICB may have a contract but this situation makes no logical sense.. not letting him play in the first Test only helps the opposition - WICB might get to show off its strength but the players would only have more mistrust after something like this. Does anyone honestly believe that he needs to be in the squad 2 days earlier for "meaningful practice and developing the team ethic"?

Everyone else has turned up on time, and arranged themselves accordingly. Since the camp ends on the 3rd, he'd miss all of it - how is that fair on others who have turned up. Plus how does it give him time to reaccimiatise and prepare for a significantly different form of the game, a form in which he is still very inexperienced and unproven?

It sounds like the WI IPL players got it wrong in that they gave WICB a June 1st deadline because that was the last day of IPL without considering the flight times. Seems like an honest mistake and the WICB not being flexible here just shows you why the WI players and the board have not seen eye-to-eye for the past decade or so.

WICB has already been flexible by postponing the camp once for him, telling him to be back a week before the Test.

I think the ECB would be the only other board that would do something like this - unsurprisingly they have player relationship issues as well.

You what?

 

[marc71178]

Sunil Narine also has a contract to his IPL team, does he not? If WICB can demand he return, can Kolkata demand he stay?

Obviously Kolkata won't do that, but the point is that the contract is irrelevant in this case, just as the arbitrary deadline of June the 1st is.

He was only allowed to sign that contract when the WICB gave him the NOC, which had its conditions.

How is it irrelevant? If he's signed something and then doesn't honour it, he is the one in the wrong, it's nobody else's fault.

As it is they've been more than accommodating to him changing things already.

 

[viriya]

The only reason the other IPL players don't have this issue is because they didn't get to the final.. If Gayle, Narine, Bravo (assuming he wasn't injured and is first choice for Tests) were all playing for KKR and the WICB was adamant in their stance it would throw the whole test in disarray.

It would be hilarious if CSK get to the final and McCullum ends up playing that and coming back to the first Test to make a big hundred.. just shows how illogical the decision is. What if he loses the game for CSK because Narine beats him all ends up in multiple overs before getting him out? I'm sure he'd be relieved that he won't have to face him in the Test..

 

[hendrix]

Everyone else has turned up on time, and arranged themselves accordingly. Since the camp ends on the 3rd, he'd miss all of it - how is that fair on others who have turned up. Plus how does it give him time to reaccimiatise and prepare for a significantly different form of the game, a form in which he is still very inexperienced and unproven?

to turn this around the other way:
- his IPL team are paying him a great deal of money to play as the most important part of their bowling attack of the finals of a prestigious and well-broadcasted competition.
- The franchise that he plays for is located in a city that inhabits 15 million people and has been home to what many regard as the greatest game of cricket ever played
- They are offering to fly him back on the first available flight at their cost, giving him 5 days to prepare for another match that will hold interest to two sides who barely don't even rank in the top 5 in the sport
- This match will be lucky to attract barely a 100th of the interest that the IPL final will generate.

I get that we want him to show his interest in Test cricket.

But don't we also want Test cricket to show an interest in him?

Because t20 cricket certainly is.

 

[marc71178]

It would be hilarious if CSK get to the final and McCullum ends up playing that and coming back to the first Test to make a big hundred.. just shows how illogical the decision is.

No, because that is a completely different situation as McCullum isn't employed by the WICB so has a different contract to abide by.

There's also a huge difference in that McCullum is highly experienced player who is a guaranteed selection for NZ.

 

[marc71178]

to turn this around the other way:
- his IPL team are paying him a great deal of money to play as the most important part of their bowling attack of the finals of a prestigious and well-broadcasted competition.
- The franchise that he plays for is located in a city that inhabits 15 million people and has been home to what many regard as the greatest game of cricket ever played
- They are offering to fly him back on the first available flight at their cost, giving him 5 days to prepare for another match that will hold interest to two sides who barely don't even rank in the top 5 in the sport
- This match will be lucky to attract barely a 100th of the interest that the IPL final will generate.

I get that we want him to show his interest in Test cricket.

But don't we also want Test cricket to show an interest in him?

Because t20 cricket certainly is.

OK, so if you were someone directly competing with him for a spot in the team, someone with better credentials for that spot, and you did everything that your employer demanded of you, how would you feel if he went against those same regulations then gets picked ahead of you anyway?

 

[viriya]

No, because that is a completely different situation as McCullum isn't employed by the WICB so has a different contract to abide by.

There's also a huge difference in that McCullum is highly experienced player who is a guaranteed selection for NZ.

I'm saying there should be an exception in this case. The contract as it is doesn't make sense. Logic should prevail but most likely won't.

 

[hendrix]

OK, so if you were someone directly competing with him for a spot in the team, someone with better credentials for that spot, and you did everything that your employer demanded of you, how would you feel if he went against those same regulations then gets picked ahead of you anyway?

Credentials for picking a test team:

1. Pick the players and team most likely to succeed against the opposition.

2....


Now that is hyperbole and absolutely an over-simplification because team harmony is important, but you really have to wonder whether missing 2 days a week out from a test match is compromising team bonding.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, the key word there being Team - not a group of individuals doing as they please.

 

[marc71178]

I'm saying there should be an exception in this case. The contract as it is doesn't make sense. Logic should prevail but most likely won't.

Logic suggests the unproven player should be getting home to get as much red ball practice as possible if he's serious about wanting to play Tests.

 

[hendrix]

Yes, the key word there being Team - not a group of individuals doing as they please.

and how exactly is bowling 4 measly overs a week out from a test match and arriving with 5 days to spare compromising the team?

 

[hendrix]

Let's be honest here too.

New Zealand's best spinner has turned down the opportunity to play test cricket to instead play county cricket in England.

This is where we're at.

 

[Maximas]

It's choices like this that contribute to the death of test cricket, I mean, ffs, it's a final, and he'll be back in time to get some decent preparation in. If the WI board really wants to make tests its no 1 priority then it should be making it as accessible and enticing as possible to the best players and talents in the country. Taking uncompromising and unnecessary stances such as this in the name of principle (or team morale) doesn't help

 

[viriya]

One valid point against Narine here is that he is still unproven in Tests.. He is clearly WI's best in ODIs and T20Is, but in Tests you could argue that Shane Shillingford would be very effective vs a NZ team weak against spin. That being said I think it's not unreasonable to assume that Narine has more potential - it's just that to get better in Test cricket you have to play more of it. The WICB is not really helping him here though.