***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Beamer]

On form, KW inches ahead for me cos he bowls some handy spin too

Shakes head angrily, throws dart at ICC logo on the wall....

But seriously, Bravo is the better batsman, KW is the better cricketer (pelts a few off spinners and is a waaaaaay better fielder)

 

[Beamer]

Yeah most of that's fair. I suppose it's way to easy to fall into the trap of thinking that Shiv is not his old self when he's still scoring plenty of runs. Forgot about Baz vs Samuels. You never really know with either of those two, but certainly it's McCullum on current form.

I just think Samuels looked so bad in the last series, it was almost as if his hand-eye skills had gone. For someone who was so elegant and played the ball very late the year before, he was hitting the ball way out in front of himself and generally looked ugly as sin at the crease. It was a crying shame. If he does that badly again he will be gone IMHO, especially with a few excellent young batsman now starting to kick down the door at last.

Baz might not be consistent but he at least still looks as good as ever at the crease.

 

[hendrix]

Agree. I think the action testing had really taken it out of him mentally and he just looked horrible.

KW's action needs to be tested. He's been getting away with it because he's not a bowler, but he's taken so many wickets now that it's becoming an issue.

 

[Bahnz]

I'm probably overreacting, but I'm also not so sure that Gayle represents an enormous step up in quality over the kiwi openers anymore. He looked just awful against the new ball in India last year and hasn't been his usual self in the IPL. Those batsmen who tend to rely on quick reflexes rather than solid technique and sound temperament tend to decline at a younger age, and Gayle is fast approaching 35. I actually think there's a fairly strong argument for dropping him down to the middle order, so that he can swing the bat without having to worry too much about the movement that Southee and Boult generate.

 

[Beamer]

I'm probably overreacting, but I'm also not so sure that Gayle represents an enormous step up in quality over the kiwi openers anymore. He looked just awful against the new ball in India last year and hasn't been his usual self in the IPL. Those batsmen who tend to rely on quick reflexes rather than solid technique and sound temperament tend to decline at a younger age, and Gayle is fast approaching 35. I actually think there's a fairly strong argument for dropping him down to the middle order, so that he can swing the bat without having to worry too much about the movement that Southee and Boult generate.

Agreed, I've been campaigning for Gayle to drop to 6 for a while now. I think he'd be an absolute destroyer of tired bowling attacks if the rest of the middle order did their jobs. I don;t think Gayle's eyes have gone, he is just still suffering badly from a back injury and he really should not have been playing at all. Not good from either him or RCB tbh, I think he should have rested and prepared for our home season.

 

[Beamer]

In other news, our training squad is playing a warm up against a Barbados XI at Cave Hill, a notoriously low scoring ground which can spin big. Key events on day 1:

West Indies 272 all out

Darren Bravo 124 (215)
Kirk Edwards 50 (114)
Powell 5, Shiv 0, Samuels 9 and Ramdin 12 all failed.

Jamal Warrican, a left arm spinner, took 5 wickets for Barbados.

In reply Barbados are 26/2. Kemar Roach and Jerome Taylor got one wicket each.

 

[hendrix]

It's tough for me to completely write off Gayle because he's not that old and while it's true that he does rely on his eye, I've never seen him as a flat track bully or anywhere near in the domain of a Suresh Raina. He does have reasonable technique for someone known as a hitter.

 

[Bahnz]

In other news, our training squad is playing a warm up against a Barbados XI at Cave Hill, a notoriously low scoring ground which can spin big. Key events on day 1:

West Indies 272 all out

Darren Bravo 124 (215)
Kirk Edwards 50 (114)
Powell 5, Shiv 0, Samuels 9 and Ramdin 12 all failed.

Jamal Warrican, a left arm spinner, took 5 wickets for Barbados.

In reply Barbados are 26/2. Kemar Roach and Jerome Taylor got one wicket each.

Who's in the bowling attack alongside Taylor and Roach? Benn and Shillingford?

 

[Prince EWS]

Gayle's gone through periods like this before and come out the other side. I've never rated him that highly as a Test batsman and I disagree fundamentally with hendrix about his technique, but he does keep proving me wrong. It wouldn't be surprised if his output was similar or worse than one or even both the NZ openers, but there's still a far greater chance IMO that he'll make a telling contribution to the series than any other opener so you still have to regard him as an advantage to the West Indies.

I'm slightly surprised at some of the other debates. Southee and Boult are conclusively better than both Roach and Jerome Taylor for mine, and mentioning Ross Taylor in the same sentence as Chanderpaul is just flat out wrong. I feel dirty for just having done so; Chanderpaul is comfortably better.

McCullum v Samuels is an interesting one though. Samuels is the better bat for mine but McCullum's more likely to fire in this series.

 

[WindieWeathers]

In other news, our training squad is playing a warm up against a Barbados XI at Cave Hill, a notoriously low scoring ground which can spin big. Key events on day 1:

West Indies 272 all out

Darren Bravo 124 (215)
Kirk Edwards 50 (114)
Powell 5, Shiv 0, Samuels 9 and Ramdin 12 all failed.

Jamal Warrican, a left arm spinner, took 5 wickets for Barbados.

In reply Barbados are 26/2. Kemar Roach and Jerome Taylor got one wicket each.

Yeah great to see the guys getting a workout...there was a fear they would go into the series under-cooked because none of the squad are playing in the warm up matches vs NZ in Jamaica. Anyway great to see Darren has seemingly shrugged off his recent personal problems...i did hear a week ago that he was playing for Queens Park and looked in great touch and this just confirms it. Also great to see Kemar and Taylor sharing the new ball and nicking a few wickets...by the sound of it Shilly and Benn are the spin-twins in this game so one of them is gonna have to stand up if they want to partner Narine.

In closing well done to young Warrican...he's had to battle to play first class cricket because he's behind Nuse and Benn for Barbados but this is a good sign that he's developing well...want to see some of the other batsmen score big in the next innings now...especially Samuels who's place is coming under serious threat from Blackwood i think.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Gayle's gone through periods like this before and come out the other side. I've never rated him that highly as a Test batsman and I disagree fundamentally with hendrix about his technique, but he does keep proving me wrong. It wouldn't be surprised if his output was similar or worse than one or even both the NZ openers, but there's still a far greater chance IMO that he'll make a telling contribution to the series than any other opener so you still have to regard him as an advantage to the West Indies.

I'm slightly surprised at some of the other debates. Southee and Boult are conclusively better than both Roach and Jerome Taylor for mine, and mentioning Ross Taylor in the same sentence as Chanderpaul is just flat out wrong. I feel dirty for just having done so; Chanderpaul is comfortably better.

McCullum v Samuels is an interesting one though. Samuels is the better bat for mine but McCullum's more likely to fire in this series.

Call me biased maybe...but when all the pacers are at their best imo Roach is the most talented of the lot...he's quicker than Boult and Southee and can swing it both ways so there isn't really anything Boult and Southee do that Kemar can't do....Southee has been playing a lot of cricket while Kemar has been out and yet still his average is below Kemar's.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I'm also kinda struggling to see how people are putting KW ahead of Bravo.

Yep it's simply not logical imo and their respective test averages prove that..hell they were just on the same pitch six months ago and we all saw who the better man was.

For me the real battle has always been Darren Bravo vs Virat Kohli....but that's a debate for another day.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Regarding Samuels...it's well documented that he had a wrist injury during the last NZ series...he's had that operated on now and it's fine. Now will be the real test for Marlon, in the t20 world cup his defense looked ok by he just wasn't flowing enough...we all want to see the same Samuels we saw in 2012 but time is running out because other batsmen are starting to put the pressure on...especially Blackwood and Leon Johnson...so he needs to stand up now and show his true class.

 

[Bahnz]

Call me biased maybe...

Now why would anyone ever say a thing like that...

Yep it's simply not logical imo and their respective test averages prove that..hell they were just on the same pitch six months ago and we all saw who the better man was.

Well, if we're being technical, in the one match were they were both on the same pitch, KW scored more runs in one innings than Bravo managed in both combined.

 

[WindieWeathers]

More from the WI warm up match!!

West Indies 1st Innings

K Edwards c Hope b Reifer 50

K Powell LBW Peters 5

Darren Bravo LBW Warrican 124

M Samuels c Harding b Warrican 9

S Chanderpaul c Hope b Warrican 0

D Ramdin*+ c Corbin b Holder 12

K Roach b Holder 0

S Shillingford c Hope b Warrican 22

J Taylor c Belle b Holder 10

S Benn not out 12

S Gabriel LBW Warrican 0

Total: 272 All Out (82 Overs)

Extras: (4Lb, 3B, 7WD, 13NB) 27

Fall of Wickets: 1-10, 2-44, 3-179, 4-179, 5-219, 6-223-, 7-223, 8-254, 9-263, 10-272.

Barbados Select XI 1st Innings Bowling: J Holder 20-1-92-3, J Warrican 28-8-78-5, R Reifer* 11-3-26-1, K Harding 3-0-17-0, D Sealy 9-1-23-0, K Peters 11-3-29-1.


Barbados Select XI 1st Innings

A Alleyne not out 8

D Belle c Darren Bravo b Taylor 0

K Corbin b Roach 6

S Hope not out 7

Total: 26/2 (6 Overs)

Extras: (4B, 1NB) 5

Fall of Wickets: 1-8, 2-15.

West Indies 1st Innings Bowling: K Roach 3-1-10-1, J Taylor 3-0-12-1

Interesting to see Jason Holder took three wickets for Barbados having just got back from the IPL the same day i think...a lot of people think it's certain to be Taylor and Roach sharing the new ball but it's good to see the young man putting the pressure on. Shai Hope and Anthony Alleyne are at the crease and seen as top prospects so it's gonna be a test to see how they deal with this attack tomorrow...Gabriel is also playing and he needs to make a statement if he wishes to have a sniff at playing...Also it looks like a shoot out between Benn and Shilly to see who partners Narine..so over these two games we should get a clearer picture.

 

[hendrix]

Really big turnaround in selection and preparation policies from the WI it seems. Good to see.

 

[Howsie]

Call me biased maybe...but when all the pacers are at their best imo Roach is the most talented of the lot...he's quicker than Boult and Southee and can swing it both ways so there isn't really anything Boult and Southee do that Kemar can't do

Except for bowl well overseas.....

Since New Zealand last toured the Windies two years ago, which coincidentally was when both Boult and Southee were recalled to the test team they've been outstanding. Southee is arguably a top three pacer, Steyn, Johnson, and Harris are the only three bowlers I would even listen to as being better than him at the moment. 70 wickets @ 22 and he's done the damage everywhere over the world. Boult, 74 @ 25 is just a little bit behind him and the rest of that group.

Roach is a good bowler, personally I've probably rated him higher then he should be in the past. But he isn't a patch on Southee whatsoever and still a long way off Boult.

 

[hendrix]

Call me biased maybe...but when all the pacers are at their best imo Roach is the most talented of the lot...he's quicker than Boult and Southee and can swing it both ways so there isn't really anything Boult and Southee do that Kemar can't do....Southee has been playing a lot of cricket while Kemar has been out and yet still his average is below Kemar's.

Does Roach really swing the ball both ways? I've never really seen him as a swing bowler, to be honest. More of a seamer who can get some swing when he needs it - sorta similar to Shami, Harris and Broad (none of whom swing the ball both ways).

 

[viriya]

Good to see Roach back - WI really need him in their bowling attack.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Except for bowl well overseas.....

Since New Zealand last toured the Windies two years ago, which coincidentally was when both Boult and Southee were recalled to the test team they've been outstanding. Southee is arguably a top three pacer, Steyn, Johnson, and Harris are the only three bowlers I would even listen to as being better than him at the moment. 70 wickets @ 22 and he's done the damage everywhere over the world. Boult, 74 @ 25 is just a little bit behind him and the rest of that group.

Roach is a good bowler, personally I've probably rated him higher then he should be in the past. But he isn't a patch on Southee whatsoever and still a long way off Boult.

Excuse me? Erm Roach was named man of the series IN SRI-LANKA...getting 15 wickets in two tests. He was also very good in England in the two tests he played in when we toured there in 2012 and also made his name giving Australia a tough time away in 2009. So his efforts away from home aren't in doubt imo. Also like i mentioned before Boult failed in SA, Bang and India where wickets are concerned...while Roach has a better average than Southee having played test cricket for a similar amount of time....that has to stand for something.