Can Sunil Narine become an all time great?

[Maximas]

Speculating that Sunil Narine could become a Test ATG on the basis of his ability to bowl in T20 cricket, 6 Test matches containing one performance above the level of half-decent, and in spite of his complete inability to beat batsmen in flight because of his front-on action (flighting the ball fractionally more than David Hussey =/= beating the batsman in flight, ftr) is completely ludicrous.

I agree with most of this post but I'm going to have to disagree with this point. Sunil Narine not only has the ability to beat batsmen in flight but he's successfully done it at test level (only against NZ ect). A front on action might limit the amount of revs he can get as compared to someone like Swann who utilises a full pivot but it encourages overspin, which does allow Narine to flight the ball and get some dip, this was very evident when he went through the gate and bowled Sodhi during his 6fer. Also, beating a batsman in the flight is not just about getting the ball to dip on a batsman coming forward, it also applies to trapping a batsman on the crease with a deceptively full delivery, something he isn't all that good at but I see some potential, the Southee dismissal in that 6fer looked to be something along those lines. While Narine is no master of flight I think it's quite unfair to say the idea of Narine being able to beat batsmen in the flight as being "completely ludicrous".

 

[Furball]

He'll never be an ATG bowler because he's ****ing crap.

Being the number 1 ODI bowler is obviously one of those aberrations that happens from time to time. Like that time India got to number 1, Mitchell Johnson regularly hitting the cut strip or the West Indies winning a game.

 

[karan316]

Whether Narine does well in tests or not is another question, but is he himself "interested" in making a mark in test cricket? He's earning a lot in these T20 leagues. People should respect his decision if he is not interested in the longer format. If you look at the WI Ban test series, he didn't use a single delivery which was going away from the batsmen, he was bowling only off spin and was pretty ineffective, even one of the Bangladeshi batsmen said that he didn't use the knuckle ball in test series which made it easier for them. He started using it in the ODIs and was again creating problems for the batsmen. Will provide a link to the comment if possible. But WI management should clarify if Test cricket is his priority. Personally, I would love to watch him bowl in tests and he has that potential to do well.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It's obviously pointless continuing this discussion, it's going around and around in circles with the goal posts shifting every time.

You're never going to accept even the slightest criticism of Narine, and I guess there's no reason why I shouldn't let you believe he's the next Murali. By all means come back to me in ten years time with 'I told you so' if Narine ends up with 500 Test wickets at 20, but AFAIC the likelihood of that happening is tiny.

Speculating that Sunil Narine could become a Test ATG on the basis of his ability to bowl in T20 cricket, 6 Test matches containing one performance above the level of half-decent, and in spite of his complete inability to beat batsmen in flight because of his front-on action (flighting the ball fractionally more than David Hussey =/= beating the batsman in flight, ftr) is completely ludicrous.

"Is Narine going to be a Test quality bowler?" is one thing to ask after 6 Tests and a bowling average of 40. "Is Narine going to favourably compare to Warne, Muralitharan, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Bedi or Laker" is a whole other question. The former is a debate worth having. The latter is ridiculous.

Narine is good at what he does, and he'll go down in history as one of the most remarkable T20 bowlers we've ever seen. But in Test cricket, I suspect he'll be solid yet wholly unmemorable.

Some people will see what they want to see..you're certainly more than entitled to your own opinion..fact is i've seen the man flight the ball on several occasions and i've been watching him ever since news spread around the caribbean about this young kid who took all ten wickets in a trinidad senior team trial match...i've already pointed out history where Warne's first ten tests were concerned and also Swann's dropping early in his career...both of whome to rose up to become class acts... hell even Steyen was dropped early....for me there's not a spinner out there that is more technically gifted than Sunil...he's got the tools..which is why suggesting that he'll "only be good at t20s and not tests" is just plain naive imo.

 

[Flem274*]

for me there's not a spinner out there that is more technically gifted than Sunil...he's got the tools..which is why suggesting that he'll "only be good at t20s and not tests" is just plain naive imo.

so you admit this thread is just a trojan horse for you to be a stubborn fanboy?

 

[WindieWeathers]

so you admit this thread is just a trojan horse for you to be a stubborn fanboy?

Like i said Flem everyone is entitled to their opinions..many don't agree with me that doesn't mean i can't think they are naive .

At the end of the day i'm on a hiding to nothing because if Sunny flops against your lot this will come back to haunt me!! .

 

[hendrix]

Think some posters are being a bit harsh on WW here. He's allowed to be a fanboy.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Crikey, I thought Jono arselicked Kohli but WW is taking this to new levels in this thread.

 

[Jarquis]

Narine's already better than Warne on the basis that while Warney used to bleach his hair and resorted to Advanced Hair Studios, Sunile proudly wears that tufty little mohawk atop his head and for that he deserves huge amounts of respect.

 

[Dan]

I think it's quite unfair to say the idea of Narine being able to beat batsmen in the flight as being "completely ludicrous".

I wasn't saying that; I was saying that this discussion about Narine and ATGness (in Tests) was "completely ludicrous" given his career to date (and supporting that view with my analysis of his technique).

I don't think that's an overly controversial statement.

 

[Athlai]

Think some posters are being a bit harsh on WW here. He's allowed to be a fanboy.

Yeah he certainly is allowed to be a fanboy but he'll still cop some criticism. I got **** on for suggesting Taylor was in the top 5 ranked bats in the world.

Letterlone an ATG player.

#letterlone
#wacyouare​

 

[Maximas]

I wasn't saying that; I was saying that this discussion about Narine and ATGness (in Tests) was "completely ludicrous" given his career to date (and supporting that view with my analysis of his technique).

I don't think that's an overly controversial statement.

Ah I see, a misread on my part, however upon re-reading your original post you have still said that he has the "complete inability" to beat the batsmen in flight, and I'd say that is a controversial statement

 

[Esperance]

the long answer is no. @OP

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If you consider that Michael Bevan is an ATG, the answer is yes. If not, no.

 

[Migara]

Narine has all the elements to become a great. What he lacks is variations of the stock ball. He will be breathtaking to watch against players who cannot play spin and lack patience, will be watchable and moderately successful against batsmen who are patient, and cannon fodder for the ones who could read him. Murali and Warne had so much of variation of the stock ball, even when batsmen read them they made sure batsmen were getting beaten on the flight.

 

[karan316]

Narine has all the elements to become a great. What he lacks is variations of the stock ball. He will be breathtaking to watch against players who cannot play spin and lack patience, will be watchable and moderately successful against batsmen who are patient, and cannon fodder for the ones who could read him. Murali and Warne had so much of variation of the stock ball, even when batsmen read them they made sure batsmen were getting beaten on the flight.

I agree with you, some posters are being quite harsh here. But Narine can end up becoming an extremely good test bowler. The question is, does he want to excel at test cricket with so much money that he is earning through these T20 leagues?

His stock ball is really good, gets enough turn, drift and also a bit of extra bounce at times thanks to the overspin which he imparts. And he has that wonderful knuckle ball which is very difficult to deal as a standalone delivery. I have no doubt over Narine's potential, he can make a mark in test cricket if he works hard.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Narine has all the elements to become a great. What he lacks is variations of the stock ball. He will be breathtaking to watch against players who cannot play spin and lack patience, will be watchable and moderately successful against batsmen who are patient, and cannon fodder for the ones who could read him. Murali and Warne had so much of variation of the stock ball, even when batsmen read them they made sure batsmen were getting beaten on the flight.

Great post Migara...what do you make of Ajmal? because he is the spinner i think compares to Narine the most...Sunil has been working with Mushtaq behind the scenes so hopefully mushy will have given him sound advice about how to mix up the stock ball which is his off-break...one thing Sunny is a master at is bowling with a scrambled seam..isn't that a variation that can be used with the stock ball?

 

[WindieWeathers]

I agree with you, some posters are being quite harsh here. But Narine can end up becoming an extremely good test bowler. The question is, does he want to excel at test cricket with so much money that he is earning through these T20 leagues?

His stock ball is really good, gets enough turn, drift and also a bit of extra bounce at times thanks to the overspin which he imparts. And he has that wonderful knuckle ball which is very difficult to deal as a standalone delivery. I have no doubt over Narine's potential, he can make a mark in test cricket.

Like i commented elswhere on this thread...the IPL was a distraction only to playing first class cricket for Trinidad..hence why he's only played 13 games for them thus far. But now our four day competition will be starting in November and ending by the time the IPL starts so Sunny will have the chance to really get his fingers wet in our four day competition now...instead of just playing two games and leaving halfway through.

He's also always been up for playing test cricket but the selectors have messed him around a little...not anymore though and he's most certainly the number one spinner in the region now.

 

[Daemon]

LOL come on lads...no-one is saying that the boy was facing Steyn, Murali and Ambrose!! ...but the fact is he's going down the same schoolboy cricket path that legends like Lara walked and he's creating history. Does that mean he's gonna make it at senior level? nope...but the early signs are damn good aren't they? He'll be tested at the u17 and u19 regional levels that's for sure because boys at that level are playing club cricket and some at u19 level have even played first class cricket...so we'll just have to see how he gets on.

This post from you wrt the Kallicharan kid fits really well here in this context when you just switch the standards around.

 

[Migara]

Great post Migara...what do you make of Ajmal? because he is the spinner i think compares to Narine the most...Sunil has been working with Mushtaq behind the scenes so hopefully mushy will have given him sound advice about how to mix up the stock ball which is his off-break...one thing Sunny is a master at is bowling with a scrambled seam..isn't that a variation that can be used with the stock ball?

I don't think we can compare Ajmal and Narine because the method of attack are different. Narine's strength are flight and mystery while Ajmal's is pace through air and mystery.

Narine with his style better of luring batsman in to drives getting them stumped and caught at short fielders. He cannot replicate Ajmal's method of quick, flat and accurate off break bowling. Hell, Ajmal has a different grip to the off break which even allows him to undercut the spin.

At the same age I would say Ajmal would have been much more experienced because he bowled to players who play spin vert well. Narine on other hand is yet to bowl to great players of spin in long format. Given the same number of FC matches however, I would expect Narine to mature faster than Ajmal.