Ravi Ashwin vs Daniel Vettori

[Shri]

Better eye sight gives Ash the edge.

 

[karan316]

Lyon > Hauritz.

Crazily enough, he's barely playing state cricket these days. Everyone's so obsessed with bringing in young legspinners in the hope of being the next Warne that a decent performer like Hauritz gets sidelined completely. It's a shame, because before he got dropped he was such an improved bowler on what he was.

I mean, if it were for Lyon I could somewhat understand it. There was always something about Lyon that suggested he'd be Test quality. But Xavier Doherty and Michael Beer? Hilditch was nuts.

But Doherty had the qualities of a good LO bowler. I felt he was selected a bit too late, should have played the shorter format for a longer time by now. Also, I think Krejza would have been awesome on Asian pitches(and horrible outside Asia). His bowling style, line and length which he bowled,etc. was just perfect for low, turning tracks.

 

[Dan]

But Doherty had the qualities of a good LO bowler. I felt he was selected a bit too late, should have played the shorter format for a longer time by now. Also, I think Krejza would have been awesome on Asian pitches(and horrible outside Asia). His bowling style, line and length which he bowled,etc. was just perfect for low, turning tracks.

Yeah, which is why Doherty plays ODIs. His left arm, non-turning darts are decent in those.

RE the bolded, this was Krejza's exact problem. He bowled every line and every length, often within the same over.

 

[karan316]

Yeah, which is why Doherty plays ODIs. His left arm, non-turning darts are decent in those.

RE the bolded, this was Krejza's exact problem. He bowled every line and every length, often within the same over.

Yes he does, but should have been selected a bit earlier.

I know Krejza wasn't accurate, but on SC pitches, I would rather prefer someone picking wickets (even if he leaks runs) rather than the other guys who just look to contain the batsmen even in helpful conditions.

 

[NUFAN]

Yes he does, but should have been selected a bit earlier.

I know Krejza wasn't accurate, but on SC pitches, I would rather prefer someone picking wickets (even if he leaks runs) rather than the other guys who just look to contain the batsmen even in helpful conditions.

Yes, taking wickets is great but I feel as though you've made an opinion on Krejza largely due to his excellent wicket taking performance on debut and not looked at the rest of his career closely.

 

[NUFAN]

As for the OP, I would go for Vettori in the shorter formats at his best without question. As for Test matches, well its difficult to say as Ravi has a brilliant record at home but he's probably more Bradman-esque with the ball away from home. In saying that, I don't think he is incapable of performing away from home so I would pick him over Vettori in Tests.

 

[Jono]

My view on Dan the Man is always tarnished by his inability to bowl Harbhajan Singh out in India twice.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I rate Shakib Al Hasan ahead of both of them. If Bangladesh got to play a decent number of tests the bloke might go down as the best spinning all rounder ever (Sobers obv excepted).

 

[Jassy]

Vettori easily atm, there's way too much difference in the number of tests played as it stands now. That said, I feel Ashwin will end up with a comparable record at least.

Re. Ashwin's away performances, too much is being made of it. The bloke has only played 4 tests, 3 of which were in Australia. Even Muralitharan struggled there FFS. One test in SA he was really poor - even Duminy did well in that game if I am not mistaken. Still, we should give him at least 10 more tests before we pass judgement on his prowess away from home IMO. I am not saying he'll end up rivalling Murali and Warne, but let's give him a fair go. Jadeja picked up 6 wickets in his first innings in SA and we're not exactly singing his praises because one match doesn't prove much.

While on the subject of away performances and spinners, Ajmal definitely is overrated as a test bowler. Since we're giving Ashwin flak based on a ridiculous sample size, Ajmal was downright horrible in the 2 tests he's played in Aus and NZ. His only performance of note away that sticks out came on a bunsen in Cape Town. Herath is definitely the better bowler IMO and the best spinner. Crazily underrated he is. Have a look at his stats and Ajmal's side by side, you're in for a surprise.

 

[Bahnz]

While I'd probably rate Vettori's batting ahead of Ashwin's, bowling-wise Vettori has some pretty significant problems. His inability to actually turn the ball left him ineffective, even in dry, spinning conditions. Vettori hasn't won a test match with the ball for New Zealand since he was 18 years old. Given that's what he's primarily in the side to do, I'd prefer Ashwin in tests.

In ODI's it's definitely Vettori though. One of the great ODI bowlers of all time.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Too early to vote Ashwin's way but he's done some great things for India so far. People criticizing him constantly for not delivering overseas are bring incredibly harsh. Australia has been pretty much the worst place historically to bowl finger spin... I don't ever remember the last time an overseas off spinner actually performed there. Yeah he was poor in SA on that one test but he needs to be given more time. I'm dead sure he will become a decent holding bowler overseas if he works on his game a bit. Specifically needs to put more hip work into his delivery imo. Compare that with Vettori, who didn't produce even close to the amount of match winning spells in his whole career than Ashwin has in just two years. He was a pure holding option for the majority of his career but hardly a wicket taking threat.

Still he's been a brilliant match winner at home and his batting has been a quite superb bonus. He even played a couple of good innings in Australia. Pretty confident hell end up as both the better bowler and batsman in tests. ODIs, though, easily Vettori

 

[Flem274*]

Ashwin will be the better bowler and Vettori the better batsman, and this is a strange comparison considering the contrasting career stages they're in.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Hasn't Vettori averaged like 40 with the bat in Tests over the last 7 years?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hasn't Vettori averaged like 40 with the bat in Tests over the last 7 years?

Can't be true surely... He had a great year in 2009 where he scored plenty of runs against us and SL but apart from that I don't think he's done enough to be averagin 40+. Haven't looked it up though

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Can't be true surely... He had a great year in 2009 where he scored plenty of runs against us and SL but apart from that I don't think he's done enough to be averagin 40+. Haven't looked it up though

Averages 35 since 2002 and 39.89 since 2005.
From 2006 it falls to 36.82 but rises back to 38-ish from 2007 onwards

 

[Maximas]

Australia has been pretty much the worst place historically to bowl finger spin... I don't ever remember the last time an overseas off spinner actually performed there.

Herath performed there (ave 34 with about 40 dropped catches) Although if you want a right arm offie rather than SLA you're hard pressed, Swann comes to mind in 2010/11

While on the subject of away performances and spinners, Ajmal definitely is overrated as a test bowler. Since we're giving Ashwin flak based on a ridiculous sample size, Ajmal was downright horrible in the 2 tests he's played in Aus and NZ. His only performance of note away that sticks out came on a bunsen in Cape Town. Herath is definitely the better bowler IMO and the best spinner. Crazily underrated he is. Have a look at his stats and Ajmal's side by side, you're in for a surprise.

Hmm, indeed

 

[Flem274*]

since 2005 Vettori has been a batting allrounder used as a bowling allrounder at 7-8 barring times when he elevated himself.

3026 @ 39.29 for New Zealand (stupid super test) ftr since 2005 began, and that's including his terrible final season before perma-injury. It was above 40 around 2011 or so. Oddly enough his worst country to play against in that period were the Windies, who have been quite frustrated with their bowling consistency during the 00s.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

edit oh no its ohnoitsyou

 

[OverratedSanity]

Herath performed there (ave 34 with about 40 dropped catches) Although if you want a right arm offie rather than SLA you're hard pressed, Swann comes to mind in 2010/11



Hmm, indeed

Knew you'd mention Herath and I'm a member of the Herath fanclub myself, but he's an SLA... They would have it easier than offies in Australia

 

[Hurricane]

Knew you'd mention Herath and I'm a member of the Herath fanclub myself, but he's an SLA... They would have it easier than offies in Australia

Porquoi?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Porquoi?

Pure guesswork but I think leggies and SLAs might like the bouncy pitches which might bring in the slips more. At the same time, an offie spinning it in with nice predictable bounce would be easier to hit through the arc for an attacking right hander.

Could be talking out of my behind here, jus t trying to find some reason why off spinners always get smashed in Oz