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Ian Botham vs Kapil Dev

Ian Botham vs Kapil Dev?


  • Total voters
    60

rtramdas

U19 12th Man
Botham was a gun fielder everywhere. Unreal slipper and great in the outfield. Rocket arm.

There really isn't much between these two, but I think I just prefer Botham as a cricketer. Botham bats top 6. Kapil doesn't. That's the difference for me.
yes Botham was a brilliant slip fielder as his catches of '`120' shows.but when some body takes 120 catches in 102 tests it is more of a chance of him fielding at slips than any where else. but i am not denying that he was good any where else.but Kapil was slightly better over all fielder. he was very good at pick and throw in one stretch from long on or long off etc, i have seen him take catch running back wards, seen him take catch diving to his right, seen him leap front wards to take catch of his own bowling etc. he was a brilliant runner between the wkts too in that he never got run out in his entire career.

but batting with lower order is a real disadvantage for a batsman as far as i am concerned.the batsman will have to score majority of the team runs by himself. tail enders being technically unsound means he can run out of partners much easily than a top order batsman.yet Kapil scored all these runs at a str: rate of +20 and at an avg: of only 2.49 behind when compared to Botham means he is better for me. any way each to his own.no regrets. but what data i quoted is more than enough for me to believe Kapil was much better.yes i don't neglect the fact that conventional belief is that Botham is better. but i don't believe in conventional beliefs.for me crystal clear facts are more important.hence i firmly stick to my points.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Yeh, look, I'm a big fan of Kapil, great cricketer. Fair to say Botham's peak was magnificent, whereas Kapil was a more durable cricketer.
 

rtramdas

U19 12th Man
Yeh, look, I'm a big fan of Kapil, great cricketer. Fair to say Botham's peak was magnificent, whereas Kapil was a more durable cricketer.
i too accept that peak is a highlight, but if the peak is a short period, then sustained consistancy is better i believe. and in Botham's case this peak was greatly influenced by Packer Players absence in lot of those opposition teams.and he was not great against Windies even in his peak i suppose.
Then what about captaincy matter? lifting the world cup at the age of 24 including all the highlights that i mentioned in my first msg: is a huge factor for me to evaluate Kapil.related to that , he was the best all rounder even in his last world cup in AUS.even in WI tour as captain he rose above his normal standards.what Botham have did to show in this regard?
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
Each all rounder of that time had a unique quality which made them so special. For Kapil, it was his performance against the best side of his time. He was clearly the best against the best, only Kapil could hammer the great West Indies bowler the way he did. The other three guys weren't equally successful against the West Indies.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
i too accept that peak is a highlight, but if the peak is a short period, then sustained consistancy is better i believe. and in Botham's case this peak was greatly influenced by Packer Players absence in lot of those opposition teams.and he was not great against Windies even in his peak i suppose.
Then what about captaincy matter? lifting the world cup at the age of 24 including all the highlights that i mentioned in my first msg: is a huge factor for me to evaluate Kapil.related to that , he was the best all rounder even in his last world cup in AUS.even in WI tour as captain he rose above his normal standards.what Botham have did to show in this regard?
Let's not pretend Kapil was amazing against the WIs. He performed okay against them but it wasn't mind-blowingly amazing.

And captaincy doesn't matter at all to me....
 

rtramdas

U19 12th Man
Let's not pretend Kapil was amazing against the WIs. He performed okay against them but it wasn't mind-blowingly amazing.

And captaincy doesn't matter at all to me....
Kapil averaged 42.33 with the bat and 24.94 with the ball as captain in the WI.these are the figures that a specialist batsman or bowler would have wanted so badly against the best team of their era. even his over all figures against WI were much better than other 3 all rounders.as for captaincy let us not forget that Imran is much highly regarded even for this factor alone.again each to his own. just informed
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Each all rounder of that time had a unique quality which made them so special. For Kapil, it was his performance against the best side of his time. He was clearly the best against the best, only Kapil could hammer the great West Indies bowler the way he did. The other three guys weren't equally successful against the West Indies.
Um, sorry but Hadlee was much better against the Windies than Kapil was.


Hadlee vs WI - batting av 32.41, bowling av 22.03
Kapil vs WI - batting av 30.82, bowling av 24.89

In terms of team results, NZ and Pakistan were the only teams to challenge the Windies during the 1980s. Much of NZ's success was due to Hadlee.


Regarding the actual question (Botham v Kapil), Botham was the more talented, Kapil the harder worker. Both greats (but as consistent matchwinners over a career both rate behind Imran and Hadlee - and possibly Clive Rice too).
 
Last edited:

rtramdas

U19 12th Man
Um, sorry but Hadlee was much better against the Windies than Kapil was.


Hadlee vs WI - batting av 32.41, bowling av 22.03
Kapil vs WI - batting av 30.82, bowling av 24.89

In terms of team results, NZ and Pakistan were the only teams to challenge the Windies during the 1980s. Much of NZ's success was due to Hadlee.


Regarding the actual question (Botham v Kapil), Botham was the more talented, Kapil the harder worker. Both greats (but as consistent matchwinners over a career both rate behind Imran and Hadlee - and possibly Clive Rice too).
Hadlee was not that successful in WI w.r.t batting as Kapil was
 

rtramdas

U19 12th Man
Um, sorry but Hadlee was much better against the Windies than Kapil was.


Hadlee vs WI - batting av 32.41, bowling av 22.03
Kapil vs WI - batting av 30.82, bowling av 24.89

In terms of team results, NZ and Pakistan were the only teams to challenge the Windies during the 1980s. Much of NZ's success was due to Hadlee.


Regarding the actual question (Botham v Kapil), Botham was the more talented, Kapil the harder worker. Both greats (but as consistent matchwinners over a career both rate behind Imran and Hadlee - and possibly Clive Rice too).
Hadlee was the best bowler of the 4 and he was the least bat of the 4.hence the least all rounded player of the 4. w.r.t Kapil a str: rate of >80 in tests and 95 in `1 dayers can't be achieved by hard work alone. BTW what are Rice's credentials as an international player?
 
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OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Let's not pretend Kapil was amazing against the WIs. He performed okay against them but it wasn't mind-blowingly amazing.

And captaincy doesn't matter at all to me....
Kapil had some of his finest moments against the Windies with both bat and ball... Especially that one series I think in 82 or 83 which included a spell of 9/81 against them. I'd say he has a case to have been the best of the 4 all rounders against WI in terms of overall performances.

On topic, I'd say Botham by a small but definite margin. Was beyond sensational for the first third if his career, but it's often forgotten that he was a perfectly good all-rounder for the second 1/3rd of his career too... Produced figures comparable to Kapil's overall record even then. He fell off badly towards only the very end.

Botham's all-round contribution to England was amazing... Scored almost 50 runs per match and picked up almost 4 wpm, with 28 5fers and 14 hundreds, which none of the other ARs came close to matching. Instead of looking at his awesome wicket and run production, people just solely focus on averages and nothing else which annoys me.
 
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ohnoitsyou

International Regular
Botham's all-round contribution to England was amazing... Scored almost 50 runs per match and picked up almost 4 wpm, with 28 5fers and 14 hundreds, which none of the other ARs came close to matching. Instead of looking at his awesome wicket and run production, people just solely focus on averages and nothing else which annoys me.
"Was amazing", for a few years. Then fat **** Beefy took over and hence all the focus on averages is justified.
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
Um, sorry but Hadlee was much better against the Windies than Kapil was.


Hadlee vs WI - batting av 32.41, bowling av 22.03
Kapil vs WI - batting av 30.82, bowling av 24.89

In terms of team results, NZ and Pakistan were the only teams to challenge the Windies during the 1980s. Much of NZ's success was due to Hadlee.


Regarding the actual question (Botham v Kapil), Botham was the more talented, Kapil the harder worker. Both greats (but as consistent matchwinners over a career both rate behind Imran and Hadlee - and possibly Clive Rice too).
Well Hadlee's figures were inflated due to the biased umpiring at home, remember the time when WI bowlers would not bowl at full pace to him after getting frustated when the umpires wouldn't give Hadlee out.
 

OverratedSanity

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"Was amazing", for a few years. Then fat **** Beefy took over and hence all the focus on averages is justified.
Not really. "Was amazing" for the first few years, was a serviceable all rounder for the next 4-5 and then in the last few was horrendous. People usually pretend that the middle portion where he was stil decent and produced sporadic brilliant performances didn't even happen. Like you said his career is made out to be some sort of flash in the pan.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
If I was picking an AT XI (no, not one of those threads again!!), Imran would probably make it, Sir Richard would be very close with Beefy not far behind. Kapil would be a bit further back down the list.
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
If I was picking an AT XI (no, not one of those threads again!!), Imran would probably make it, Sir Richard would be very close with Beefy not far behind. Kapil would be a bit further back down the list.
Don't think so, yes, Imran and Hadlee would make a cut because of their supreme bowling, but overall, if you talk about a proper all rounder, I don't think Kapil would lag behind if you compare with most of the guys. He was an impact player, a lot more valuable than what his stats suggest.
 

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