Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
You forgot Siddle.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Was Fazal a medium pacer?
smash84
The Tiger King
the big bambino
International Captain
Medium pacer is a pretty liberal term. I read someone on Davis' blog (from memory) measured the slips standing back to Tate and found out they were the same distance away as Kasprowicz's. Bedser was similar to Tate and Fazal was likened to Bedser. I can't recall who mentioned it but I've read that Hammond was quicker than Tate and Bedser which is a claim I find surprising. But he was a man who had to be goaded into bowling most of the time. To repeat my earlier aside, I still think Philander should make Watson's team.
watson
Banned
Vernon Philander bowls consistently at about the 130 kph mark (I'm trying to remember from his last tour of Australia in 2012) and has been classed as 'fast medium'.
Terry Alderman generally bowled in the mid 120s and was classified as 'medium'. I've also heard him described as 'medium fast' which is somehow a category between 'medium' and 'fast medium'. But I think that's being overly pedantic. Just 'medium' will do.
Graeme Swann is pretty quick as far as spinners go and sends them down at speeds in the mid 90s. Occasionally topping the 100 mark.
It's difficult estimating the speed of bowlers like Tate, Bedser, and Mahmood because we rely upon written descriptions or inferior black and white footage if we are lucky. However, my opinion is that they bowled at a range of speed similar to Terry Alderman. Occasionally hitting the 130 mark but typically a little slower. It is possible that they bowled consistently in the Philander range of around the early 130s, but I think that we an safely say that they were faster than Swann but slower than a real fast bowler like Steyn who cruises in the 140s, but can crank it up to 150 when he wants to.
Incidentally, I read recently that SF Barnes bowled at 70 to 75 mph (113 to 121 kph) but I'm not sure how the author calculated that;
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/638123.html
Last edited:
the big bambino
International Captain
I remember Bobby Simpson in commentary recalling a net session with Bedser and saying that he was hit black and blue by the bowler. Simmo would have been young at the time but Bedser in his late 30s. It is interesting to speculate about their bowling and they must have had something special to hurry up so many guys.
watson
Banned
Here is some good footage of Bedser claiming his 100th wicket against Australia.;
http://bps.britishpathe.com/hls-vod/flash/00000000/00028000/00028669.mp4.m3u8
What is pretty obvious to me from the tape is the steep bounce that Bedser obtained from his action. I think that it must have been Bedser's cutter, combined with his steep bounce to beat the edge of the bat, that would have left batsman like Simpson 'black and blue'. Either that or the constant jarring of the ball hitting the splice which leaves the hands bruised and sore.
http://bps.britishpathe.com/hls-vod/flash/00000000/00028000/00028669.mp4.m3u8
What is pretty obvious to me from the tape is the steep bounce that Bedser obtained from his action. I think that it must have been Bedser's cutter, combined with his steep bounce to beat the edge of the bat, that would have left batsman like Simpson 'black and blue'. Either that or the constant jarring of the ball hitting the splice which leaves the hands bruised and sore.
Last edited:
Flem274*
123/5
I don't think you can really judge pace using anything other than a speed gun. The whole reason we have terms like "heavy ball bowler", "sneaky quick", "floaty pace (especially common when describing Shane Watson's early career bowling)", "The speed gun doesn't do McGrath justice" (Michael Atherton) is because what our eyes see isn't matching with what the speed gun is saying. How often do you see a commentator exclaim "ooh that was quick!" and then your eyes flick down to the little box with the speed in it and it's stubbornly sticking to 135kph?
Almost every great bowler to play the game prior to the advent of common speed guns has been described as fast. Alan Davidson and Sydney Barnes are the only exceptions I can think of and no one can decide what the latter even bowled.
I think many people would be very surprised at what we might find if we were able to travel back in time with a modern speed gun and get some of the past greats clocked. I think the majority would be 140+ but there would be the odd one who was high 130s and if we expanded the survey to all past bowlers we would pick up a fair few supposed medium pacers bowling low 140s who were just crap imo.
Almost every great bowler to play the game prior to the advent of common speed guns has been described as fast. Alan Davidson and Sydney Barnes are the only exceptions I can think of and no one can decide what the latter even bowled.
I think many people would be very surprised at what we might find if we were able to travel back in time with a modern speed gun and get some of the past greats clocked. I think the majority would be 140+ but there would be the odd one who was high 130s and if we expanded the survey to all past bowlers we would pick up a fair few supposed medium pacers bowling low 140s who were just crap imo.
Last edited:
kyear2
International Coach
Looking at Watson's signature and he has 5 superb teams. Not identical to what by selections would be, but close enough. Which would have the best chance of winning a competition between them.
PRE WWI
Grace-Trumper-Hill-Taylor-Ranjitsinhji-Faulkner-Noble-Lilley-Turner-Richardson-Barnes
PRE WWII
Hobbs-Sutcliffe-Bradman-Hammond-Headley-Macartney-Ames-Gregory-Larwood-O'Reilly-Grimmett
POST WWII
Hutton-Simpson-Kanhai-Pollock-Harvey-Sobers-Waite-Benaud-Davidson-Lindwall-Trueman
PACKER ERA
Gavaskar-Greenidge-Richards-Chappell-Lloyd-Botham-Imran-Knott-Lillee-Holding-Underwood
MODERN ERA
Hayden-Langer-Ponting-Tendulkar-Lara-Kallis-Gilchrist-Marshall-Warne-Ambrose-McGrath
PRE WWI
Grace-Trumper-Hill-Taylor-Ranjitsinhji-Faulkner-Noble-Lilley-Turner-Richardson-Barnes
PRE WWII
Hobbs-Sutcliffe-Bradman-Hammond-Headley-Macartney-Ames-Gregory-Larwood-O'Reilly-Grimmett
POST WWII
Hutton-Simpson-Kanhai-Pollock-Harvey-Sobers-Waite-Benaud-Davidson-Lindwall-Trueman
PACKER ERA
Gavaskar-Greenidge-Richards-Chappell-Lloyd-Botham-Imran-Knott-Lillee-Holding-Underwood
MODERN ERA
Hayden-Langer-Ponting-Tendulkar-Lara-Kallis-Gilchrist-Marshall-Warne-Ambrose-McGrath
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Ignoring the Bradman factor, I think that the post WWII team is very strong.
He opens in place of Papps, Nasir dropped for a batsman-wicketkeeper. Who would fit in that role?
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Second Spitter
State Vice-Captain
Modern era team has best bowling attack....i mean the barrage would be endless. Apart from arguably weaker openers, the batting would be amazing.
Packer era team is the weakest imo.