**Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

[Blocky]

Exactly what I was getting at. They're achieving neither. This side should either have trophies to show for the amount of ex/current NZ reps holding up the youth, and created a winning culture, or it should slowly move those guys away and bring through the next wave.

But they shipped in a 35-year-old seamer, who from all reports is a very savvy bowling coach but some of that is negated by the fact he's kept someone out of a spot.

Post World Cup, a hell of a lot of those names above will be gone. Welcome to 2015-2020 Wellington: the Rebuilding Years. Actually they'll probably just offer a bunch of contracts to guys on the fringes from around the country, and try to rely on the few young talents that have been given a go over the past 2-3 seasons.

As for Pollard, yes his 2013-14 PS numbers are good but his T20 record in particular is horrendous for a player of his hitting ability.

Speaking for BA personally though - he is a superb bowling coach, understands things from a biomechanic standpoint and was seeking funding within ND to go and put a specialised bowling clinic together including biomechanic research but couldn't get it off the ground. He had some absolute horror stories about his time spent in the Academy and what they tried to do with his action and there is a lot of regret on his part because he sees himself as one of the "missing generation" of NZ fast bowlers all around his age level that had Dayle Hadlee effectively **** his action over completely and cause him chronic injuries for trying to bowl with something that didn't suit him.

I don't think for a second he would actively want to hold someone out of first class cricket - I watched him mentor a guy who wasn't even playing premier cricket in Hamilton and he even talked about getting the guy to come to his club so he could give up his spot and let him have a crack at premier cricket. As far as taking a seasoned old pro into your attack to help mentor and bring through younger talent, he's an ideal guy - I think the problem more so is that they've still got Gillespie, McKay, Elliott and Franklin around which means they're not bringing younger guys through - but it wouldn't surprise me if some younger pace bowlers came through in the next few years and sing Arnel's praises.

Wellington have always had an issue no matter what team they've had on the park, the Crowe era, the Fleming era - they haven't really performed and been that successful when you compare them to other clubs and a lot of that comes down to coaching and selection structures. You have to play for the right school/club to get a look in and they're constantly bringing external talent into their side rather than backing the guys they have.

"His batting will definitely suffer not having me around but bowling wise he should get a fair bit more [overs]."

Quote gold from J.Siddons. We should be so lucky to have him on the scene (stats don't really bear him out at all, incidentally)

Yeah, that makes me laugh considering Kuggs has had as good of a season with the bat this year as he did last year, James Pamment is regarded enough for Ross Taylor to have spent some specialised coaching sessions with him down under Seddon Park when Crowe wasn't available. Kuggs was always going to come back to ND - his issue was that he was stuck behind (ironically) Arnel, Aldridge and at the time, Scott. He'd also have been in competition with Baker, Verma, Mathieson. He went to Wellington spying an opportunity to crack first class and came back to ND once he knew he'd get regular time there.

 

[Athlai]

The most painful thing for Wellington is the loss of Harry Boam.

Would've been our domestic star for years to come IMO.

 

[jcas0167]

Exactly what I was getting at. They're achieving neither. This side should either have trophies to show for the amount of ex/current NZ reps holding up the youth, and created a winning culture, or it should slowly move those guys away and bring through the next wave.

But they shipped in a 35-year-old seamer, who from all reports is a very savvy bowling coach but some of that is negated by the fact he's kept someone out of a spot.

Post World Cup, a hell of a lot of those names above will be gone. Welcome to 2015-2020 Wellington: the Rebuilding Years. Actually they'll probably just offer a bunch of contracts to guys on the fringes from around the country, and try to rely on the few young talents that have been given a go over the past 2-3 seasons.

As for Pollard, yes his 2013-14 PS numbers are good but his T20 record in particular is horrendous for a player of his hitting ability.

Wellington XI 2016:

Josh Brodie
Raki Weerasundra
Michael Pollard
Henry Walsh
Fraser Colson
Tom Blundell +
Chandra Ravi
Rachin Ravindra
Ili Tugaga
Ian McPeake
SET Friday

(12th man: Harry Boam on comeback?)

 

[Blocky]

Yeah, because guys who don't quite crack it at first class level (by the age of 22) and won't stick it out and work through to try and realise the young talent that saw them get paid to pay while still in school are really a massive loss.

Basically I read that as a situation of "I'm not good enough to play in a full strength Wellington unit and I don't want to try being good enough when everything had been handed to me to this point", similar to his school mate Austin-Smelly and his club mate Stu Mills.

Something about Wellington seems to be "If I'm not good enough at 22, I don't want to play any-more" - didn't Siddo make a comment like "Man, if I'd been given all this kids opportunities, the last thing I'd do is turn around and quit at 22"

 

[hendrix]

It's so amazing to me to see a bunch of guys averaging 50+ over the course of a season and bowlers being 30+ - really shows you how much the pitches have changed in the last decade, unfortunately I just get the feeling that players aren't being asked to score hard runs and that our pitches in NZ just don't deteriorate over four days.

You're also seeing when guys like Wagner, Boult and Southee return - they're such a class above the other contenders in terms of their performance that you start to see the major gulf between our mainline seam attack and the other options we have - if one of those three were to go down, it'd create a pretty big hole.

Yeah, two somewhat contradictory ideas. On the one hand, we want pitches that challenge the batsmen - but we don't want to just gift wickets to bowlers who aren't really good enough for it. As we've seen when Southee, Boult and Wagner return to domestics, there's plenty enough there in the pitches for them to run through sides. We want our bowlers to have to work hard for their wickets too. As you point out, it looks like the gap between Southee, Boult, Wagner and the rest of our bowlers is pretty massive. Hopefully for guys like Henry, Small, Wheeler and Bennett, injury is the only thing that's been preventing them from being well into the wickets.

The other benefit in these somewhat flatter pitches is that it does teach the batsmen to play long innings. Too many NZ batsmen make attractive 50s and then get out at test level because they don't really know how to dig in for those big, daddy hundreds. That's been somewhat corrected this summer, but it's good to see guys like Cachopa and Latham knuckling down for the big easy runs when they're on offer.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, because guys who don't quite crack it at first class level (by the age of 22) and won't stick it out and work through to try and realise the young talent that saw them get paid to pay while still in school are really a massive loss.

Basically I read that as a situation of "I'm not good enough to play in a full strength Wellington unit and I don't want to try being good enough when everything had been handed to me to this point", similar to his school mate Austin-Smelly and his club mate Stu Mills.

Something about Wellington seems to be "If I'm not good enough at 22, I don't want to play any-more" - didn't Siddo make a comment like "Man, if I'd been given all this kids opportunities, the last thing I'd do is turn around and quit at 22"

People have real lives. I'm sorry, but reality is if you haven't cracked it at 22 you'd be better off looking down a different career path. Domestic cricketers get paid bugger all anyway.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, because guys who don't quite crack it at first class level (by the age of 22) and won't stick it out and work through to try and realise the young talent that saw them get paid to pay while still in school are really a massive loss.

Basically I read that as a situation of "I'm not good enough to play in a full strength Wellington unit and I don't want to try being good enough when everything had been handed to me to this point", similar to his school mate Austin-Smelly and his club mate Stu Mills.

Something about Wellington seems to be "If I'm not good enough at 22, I don't want to play any-more" - didn't Siddo make a comment like "Man, if I'd been given all this kids opportunities, the last thing I'd do is turn around and quit at 22"

That and he might've gotten sick and tired of having to drag Jesse's fat drunken arse out of Courtenay Place every other night.

 

[Blocky]

People have real lives. I'm sorry, but reality is if you haven't cracked it at 22 you'd be better off looking down a different career path. Domestic cricketers get paid bugger all anyway.

I know very well what domestic cricketers make - but you can easily supplement that income and a lot of businesses are more than happy to help out. The problem with Boam (as a lot of people confirmed to me when I asked around why a guy that had a first class average of 35, coming off his best season for Wellington had quit) was that he was an arrogant little **** who believed he was better than everyone else, a view not assisted by getting a contract to play cricket at such a young age.

Unlike Siddons who grew up in Australia where you had to battle to make the squad, let alone the team, he just didn't have it in him to fight when he wasn't being gifted **** anymore. That's the problem with a lot of private school cricketers, they get it much easier and aren't used to "not being good enough" and working harder to be better.

 

[Bahnz]

People have real lives. I'm sorry, but reality is if you haven't cracked it at 22 you'd be better off looking down a different career path. Domestic cricketers get paid bugger all anyway.

Yeah, especially for a team like Wellington were all the decent contracts are locked up by guys like Elliot, Franklin, Gillespie, Jeets etc. I read it much more as a case of, "all my mates are now graduating from University and getting into careers that will set them up for life, and I don't want to run the risk of ending up with zero savings and no qualifications in my mid-30's".

 

[Bahnz]

Unlike Siddons who grew up in Australia where you had to battle to make the squad, let alone the team, he just didn't have it in him to fight when he wasn't being gifted **** anymore. That's the problem with a lot of private school cricketers, they get it much easier and aren't used to "not being good enough" and working harder to be better.

Harry didn't go to a private school. He graduated from Wellington College which is a (very good) public school.

 

[Blocky]

Yeah, two somewhat contradictory ideas. On the one hand, we want pitches that challenge the batsmen - but we don't want to just gift wickets to bowlers who aren't really good enough for it. As we've seen when Southee, Boult and Wagner return to domestics, there's plenty enough there in the pitches for them to run through sides. We want our bowlers to have to work hard for their wickets too. As you point out, it looks like the gap between Southee, Boult, Wagner and the rest of our bowlers is pretty massive. Hopefully for guys like Henry, Small, Wheeler and Bennett, injury is the only thing that's been preventing them from being well into the wickets.

The other benefit in these somewhat flatter pitches is that it does teach the batsmen to play long innings. Too many NZ batsmen make attractive 50s and then get out at test level because they don't really know how to dig in for those big, daddy hundreds. That's been somewhat corrected this summer, but it's good to see guys like Cachopa and Latham knuckling down for the big easy runs when they're on offer.

I think for bowlers though, the weapons are as they always were - being able to get movement in the air and off the pitch and finding the right length. The difference seems to be that a few seasons ago you had bowlers who were extracting movement and now you've got a bunch of straight up and down bowlers. The big issue is that NZ conditions means our wickets don't deteriorate at the same rate, so you can't build the traditional Australian wicket that gives bowlers something for an hour, batters something for two to three days and bowlers something from that point on.

Henry is having a great season, he's also one of the few who extracts consistent movement in the air and off the seam. Bennett too gets a bit of movement but the rest? Strangely not there. I've even gone out with the same cherry they use in first class and bowled a couple overs on open wickets (too broken to do more than that ) - I still get the same amount of movement in the air that I used to, so I don't think conditions have changed much - pitches certainly have, a lot more roadlike now.

 

[Blocky]

Harry didn't go to a private school. He graduated from Wellington College which is a (very good) public school.

OK - sorry, assumed Wellington College was based on the funding profile and the fact that they had cricketers like Kerr coaching their school team.

 

[Bahnz]

I also really think that Boam wasn't helped by what appeard to be chronic indecision about what his role in the team should be. For large periods of time he was played as a number 8 and 4th seamer, which is weird given that his primary talent was rather obviously always with the bat.

 

[Binkley]

Yeah, especially for a team like Wellington were all the decent contracts are locked up by guys like Elliot, Franklin, Gillespie, Jeets etc. I read it much more as a case of, "all my mates are now graduating from University and getting into careers that will set them up for life, and I don't want to run the risk of ending up with zero savings and no qualifications in my mid-30's".

Yeah. Boam seems like a talented bloke, who chose to have a non-cricketing career instead of a cricketing one. It was a sad choice for cricket fans, but given his brains probably the right one for him.

I do kinda agree that Wellington doesn't do much in the way of talent development outside of certain higher-brow schools though.

 

[Blocky]

Yeah, especially for a team like Wellington were all the decent contracts are locked up by guys like Elliot, Franklin, Gillespie, Jeets etc. I read it much more as a case of, "all my mates are now graduating from University and getting into careers that will set them up for life, and I don't want to run the risk of ending up with zero savings and no qualifications in my mid-30's".

Vettori while juggling an NZ Cricket contract and heavy workload qualified as a pharmacist.... why didn't Boam study while he was playing?

 

[hendrix]

OK - sorry, assumed Wellington College was based on the funding profile and the fact that they had cricketers like Kerr coaching their school team.

It pretty much is. They have a massive old boys association and actually offer kids sports scholarships. One of those public schools

 

[Bahnz]

Haha yeah, definitely the school of choice for the Wellington middle-classes (my parents did everything save sacrificing a goat to Zeus in order to make sure I got in).

 

[Blocky]

It pretty much is. They have a massive old boys association and actually offer kids sports scholarships. One of those public schools

Kind of like HBHS in Ham, which is "public" if you live in the catchment zones, but has a large private contingent of students and receives a crap tonne of funding from it's old boys network. Hence being able to afford Kugglejuggle's father as a coach for so many seasons and pay talent like Brooke Hatwell and Anton Devcich to play for their school side.

 

[hendrix]

Haha yeah, definitely the school of choice for the Wellington middle-classes (my parents did everything save sacrificing a goat to Zeus in order to make sure I got in).

lol. My parents are sorta hippies and probably would've disowned me if I went to Coll. This despite them sending me to private intermediate school, from which 95% of my classmates went there.

 

[jcas0167]

Vettori while juggling an NZ Cricket contract and heavy workload qualified as a pharmacist.... why didn't Boam study while he was playing?

From the Dominion Post article he had already started a BCom earlier in the year. The impression I get is that he lost his enthusiasm for the game, rather than particularly needing the time for study.

"At this time of year I'd normally be back into, but I haven't missed it at all. The thought of it doesn't excite me at all and, to me, that's a pretty good indicator of where I'm at," said Boam.