Should Dhoni still captain India?

[Jono]

Hey Jono,

I have to ask you something:

How about Kohli's attitude and his issues with other players in the team that don't cede to him and treat him like he's a God?

Regards,
Bench Mark Zero-Zero

Well I do fit the criteria of asking that question - I am an Indian cricket fan.

As opposed to an Indian fan:

 

[hendrix]

Let's see.

Under Dhoni, India went from a fractured team of individual brilliance who were capable of winning at home and being inconsistent away from home into a unit that was credible away from home and rose to the top of the rankings. Players and coaches alike said that he plays in a very selfless way for his side and simply seeks to select guys that are either proven for him or guys that are putting big numbers in domestic. The criticism on Dhoni is that he has too much faith in a Sharma type of player - but then with Sharma, he knows what he'll get and can plan accordingly, Sharma also was the dominant Indian bowler in NZ.

No, he hasn't picked guys who're putting big numbers domestically. He hasn't gone for players like Pankaj Singh or Pandey. He hasn't selected the quality spinners like Ojha or Mishra. It took him at least a year too long to get Rahane in the team - and this was when scrubs like Suresh Raina and Yuvraj Singh were still playing - these are guys that have never set first class cricket alike with anywhere near the consistency that Rahane and Pujara have shown for a number of years.

Ishant Sharma is proven. He's proven to be a crap bowler. The worst bowler in the history of the game to have played 50 tests, in fact. You can't say "Oh, I know what I'll get with Ishant" if knowing what you'll get is utterly crap, club standard bowling. Ishant taking wickets in NZ was the worst thing that could have happened for India.

The reason India are currently in a slide is pretty simple - they went from a team that had six world class batsmen, a credible seam bowling attack and a capable spin bowler to a side of guys who are seeking to prove themselves. You try lose Laxman, Sehwag ( form ), Dravid, Tendulkar, Gambhir ( form ), Harbhajan ( form ) and at the same time see the decline of Zaheer Khan. He's got a team of guys that aren't used to away conditions and haven't built records over 10 years of "combat"

Laxman (retirement), Sehwag (form), Tendulkar (retirement - but let's face it, form), Gambhir (form), Dravid (retirement, but also in pretty poor form), Harbhajan (form) is a much worse side than what they have now. Yes, that was once a godly lineup, but each of those players were very poor by the time they left the team. Tendulkar's was at least a year late, and each of those other guys were given very lenient ropes.

Vijay, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit, Rahane is a much better batting card now than those players were at the time they left the team.

 

[benchmark00]

What is the selection panel system in India? i.e. who's a part of it?

 

[benchmark00]

Well I do fit the criteria of asking that question - I am an Indian cricket fan.

As opposed to an Indian fan:

How long after you hit the reply button did you realise you could get more out of the post and then edit that in?

 

[Blocky]

Just led his team to under 19 World Cup glory, no biggie.

And what? Individual brilliance at U19 is enough. You're not under the tactical scrutiny or awareness teams have and generally at that level, your best players are your captains because they're the ones who have been in the setup and squad the longest.

 

[Blocky]

No, he hasn't picked guys who're putting big numbers domestically. He hasn't gone for players like Pankaj Singh or Pandey. He hasn't selected the quality spinners like Ojha or Mishra. It took him at least a year too long to get Rahane in the team - and this was when scrubs like Suresh Raina and Yuvraj Singh were still playing - these are guys that have never set first class cricket alike with anywhere near the consistency that Rahane and Pujara have shown for a number of years.

Ishant Sharma is proven. He's proven to be a crap bowler. The worst bowler in the history of the game to have played 50 tests, in fact. You can't say "Oh, I know what I'll get with Ishant" if knowing what you'll get is utterly crap, club standard bowling. Ishant taking wickets in NZ was the worst thing that could have happened for India.

Laxman (retirement), Sehwag (form), Tendulkar (retirement - but let's face it, form), Gambhir (form), Dravid (retirement, but also in pretty poor form), Harbhajan (form) is a much worse side than what they have now. Yes, that was once a godly lineup, but each of those players were very poor by the time they left the team. Tendulkar's was at least a year late, and each of those other guys were given very lenient ropes.

Vijay, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit, Rahane is a much better batting card now than those players were at the time they left the team.

I don't disagree that the current mix of players for India is better than what the old guard would be if they were playing today - however that's not the comparison point. We're comparing the side and make up from when India were able to rise up the rankings and eventually claim number one, versus the India that is now there that seems destined to fall to mid table in the rankings.

As for Sharma, sorry but he's the only Indian bowler outside of Khan who has consistently managed to take wickets away from home and trouble good batsman. Shami looks highly promising but India don't have better seam options than Sharma at the moment in test cricket. Quite simple. Rahane has a couple of good performances but has hardly set the world on fire and you seem to think that Dhoni is the reason behind the squad being selected the way it is - doubtful, he'll have a lot to do with the playing 11 but not the squad selection.

 

[hendrix]

No, I have no idea if Dhoni is responsible for team selection. It sounds like he is, but there's really no way of knowing what goes on with the BCCI.
Shami is miles better than Ishant. Umesh is better than Ishant. Pandey is probably better than Ishant. Bhuvneshwar is probably as good as a 35 year old Zaheer, if not better. Pragjan Ojha is India's best spinner yet he's not even in the test squad.

Personally I think Dhoni should remain captain, but the point of this discussion was to say that it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that Kohli would be a fractious captain because he looks a little disappointed when he gets out. It's even more weird to assume that he'd be a more political captain when the selections for the Indian side - particularly the bowlers - look extremely political and conservative in the current status quo.

 

[smash84]

As for Sharma, sorry but he's the only Indian bowler outside of Khan who has consistently managed to take wickets away from home and trouble good batsman. Shami looks highly promising but India don't have better seam options than Sharma at the moment in test cricket. .

dude, you lost me here. Sharma is ****. That's it. Anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

 

[Blocky]

dude, you lost me here. Sharma is ****. That's it. Anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

Without Sharma - you'd have lost 2-0, comfortably.

 

[hendrix]

Without Sharma - you'd have lost 2-0, comfortably.

Pakistan hasn't been part of India for a wee while, mate.

 

[Jono]

Partition was so ****. Robbed us of a great team. Instead both countries will forever have holes in batting and bowling.

Would be great if Bangladesh was still part of India too so Shakib "grab my nuts" Al Hasan was playing too.

 

[benchmark00]

Bangladesh does exist ftr.

 

[Daemon]

Without Sharma - you'd have lost 2-0, comfortably.

He's been involved in 53 other test matches, majority of which he has performed terribly in.

 

[smash84]

Partition was so ****. Robbed us of a great team. Instead both countries will forever have holes in batting and bowling.

.

Tbf we have had some very good batsmen over the years. Our batsman drought hasn't been like your bowlers drought.

 

[smash84]

Without Sharma - you'd have lost 2-0, comfortably.

With Sharma we would have lost 3-0

 

[Xuhaib]

Tbf we have had some very good batsmen over the years. Our batsman drought hasn't been like your bowlers drought.

we have had our own share of Ishant Sharma's. Before every squad announcements I always dread the return of Faisal Iqbal and Imran Farhat can't believe these two hacks have almost 70 tests in between them.

 

[smash84]

Of course we have had our fair share of Sharmas too (doesn't Sami average like 50 or something ) and we had some awful batsmen over the years epitomized by the nepotism beneficiary faisal iqbal but we have also had Zaheer Abbas, Hanif, Miandad, and Inzy over the years. India doesn't have anyone of note other than Kapil

 

[Jono]

Tbf we have had some very good batsmen over the years. Our batsman drought hasn't been like your bowlers drought.

Yeah but somehow we're the better team.

Edit: I see you're going back to Hanif etc. I just more meant recently.

 

[Jono]

Bangladesh does exist ftr.

Can't **** up a single minor bit of a post nowadays with you on my arse. So brutal. Constantly looking over my shoulder.

 

[benchmark00]

Can't **** up a single minor bit of a post nowadays with you on my arse. So brutal. Constantly looking over my shoulder.