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What does Nadal need to do to overtake Federer as the GOAT?

When will Nadal be considered as a greater player than Federer?


  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Muloghonto

U19 12th Man
technically, so long as you dont touch the net, you are allowed to reach over the net and play those type of balls (the ones that bounce on the opposition side and then spin back over the net to your side).
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
technically, so long as you dont touch the net, you are allowed to reach over the net and play those type of balls (the ones that bounce on the opposition side and then spin back over the net to your side).
Yep. And technically Nadal's passing shots can also be hit back over the net by people with long arms.


 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
So theoritically, if all you have is the best serve by far and the best return by far, barely ever losing a point; you can't be the GOAT because you're not well-rounded?
 

the big bambino

Cricketer Of The Year
Can anyone who saw him recall Borg's style? was he a serve and volleyer. I'm starting to think he was. How else could you win Wimbledon?
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I didn't see him live obviously, but everything I've read and from the Mcenroe matches I have watched, he was primarily a baseliner - but was obviously awesome at serve and volley and did it at Wimbledon a bit, but not anywhere close to as much as his opponents. But the main thing Borg was known for (other than being cool as "ice" etc.) is he didn't fatigue, he'd run all day. Hence baseliner. He definitely wasn't a serve and volleyer in the true sense of the term.

Maybe Burgey can answer, he would have been in his 50s when Borg was in his peak.
 
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the big bambino

Cricketer Of The Year
You have answered your own question. They are different fields, therefore, are subject to different benchmarks. My skepticism is based on the fact that adaptation is a chance, not a given. To assume that A would adapt to superior conditions, is simply an assumption I am not willing to make, period.
Look just quickly bcos this is a tennis thread and, well, you are tedious. I was seeking an answer from you! I know they are different fields to cricket: Dah. I asked why do you think an ancient scientist or general or artist would be anymore successful at meeting their challenges in adapting than would a cricketer. I'll just summarise the rest of your work and respond as briefly as poss.

Hobbs may have adapted; we will never know says you. That wasn't your argument at all. You were clear he wouldn't. Reason? he never faced pace bowlers bowling bouncers. But thats wrong. I can count several including Gregory, MacDonald, Cotter and the bodyliners to name some. Though your scepticism has become more conciliatory it is still based on an error.

Ah but he never faced Holding or the other West Indians bowling 4 bumpers an over says you. Well no I guess he didn't. (He probably dodged them by dying). Neither did SRT btw. Maybe he couldn't adpat either. Now before you complain abt SRT facing fast bowlers remember that he played them relatively fewer times than his contemporaries and largely when they were past their best (Like Amby). When he did he wasn't too flash either. Maybe SRT wouldn't be able to adapt to the WI attack. Maybe Holding couldn't adapt to minimum overs and a limit on bumpers...no better than a Fidel Edwards...we'll never know I guess.


Because its apples to oranges. I am stating what i said applies to cricket. You are trying to find a 'one glove fits all' approach, which is clearly a fallacy and a reductio ad absurdum directed towards the argument, thus reducing your comments to simple hubris.
You end where you began. Without telling us why some can adapt and others can't. As an aside hubris describes someone who thinks their opinion is superior to those who have played test cricket and the critics who watched them.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I personally think Malcolm Marshall would have been able to attack Roger Federer's backhand had Federer played cricket in the 80s.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Imagine the turn Murali and Warne would get at the French. Get the feeling had they been in their peak they could have ended Nadal's run.
 

Muloghonto

U19 12th Man
Can anyone who saw him recall Borg's style? was he a serve and volleyer. I'm starting to think he was. How else could you win Wimbledon?
Borg had one asset that none of the tennis stars before or after him did: he was freakishly accurate. Almost every ball he hit was within a couple of inches of the baseline or side lines. He rarely, if ever, hit the 'bread and butter shots', aka, those that land somewhere in the middle of the court or comfortably in. In a way, he was a male Martina Hingis (who also was freakish with her targetting the extremities of the court) but even more so.
There hasnt been a guy since him who can hit 10 straight deliveries all over the court, all landing within an inch of the lines.
Borg didnt win because he was a baseliner, he won due to his accuracy.
 

Muloghonto

U19 12th Man
Hobbs may have adapted; we will never know says you. That wasn't your argument at all. You were clear he wouldn't. Reason? he never faced pace bowlers bowling bouncers. But thats wrong. I can count several including Gregory, MacDonald, Cotter and the bodyliners to name some. Though your scepticism has become more conciliatory it is still based on an error.
None of those men bowled consistently all day at Hobb's head and Hobbs did not face bodyliners for the simple fact that Bodyline came into existence after Hobbs had retired.

Ah but he never faced Holding or the other West Indians bowling 4 bumpers an over says you. Well no I guess he didn't. (He probably dodged them by dying). Neither did SRT btw. Maybe he couldn't adpat either. Now before you complain abt SRT facing fast bowlers remember that he played them relatively fewer times than his contemporaries and largely when they were past their best (Like Amby). When he did he wasn't too flash either. Maybe SRT wouldn't be able to adapt to the WI attack. Maybe Holding couldn't adapt to minimum overs and a limit on bumpers...no better than a Fidel Edwards...we'll never know I guess.
SRT has faced an entire session with over 25% of the deliveries aimed at his head. West Indies tried that in the 96 tour of India and were moderately successful, as SRT didnt score a ton- back in the day when he was scoring a ton or two every single series. Hobbs simply remains unproven against extreme pace, so does Hutton,Sutcliffe and Hammond. Therefore, they are disqualified from a scenario that involves facing men who almost certainly will try to decapitate you with the new ball.


You end where you began. Without telling us why some can adapt and others can't. As an aside hubris describes someone who thinks their opinion is superior to those who have played test cricket and the critics who watched them.
I am not thinking my opinion is greater than those who've played cricket. Living in the Americas, you'd be surprised how many west indies greats you run into and I can say off the record that more than one West Indian cricketer who'd played against Len Hutton thought he'd die if he had to face Marshall. What you see as opinion of the learned, are actually simple PR speak to keep legacies alive, as legacies sell books and merchandise. Try off the record for change, when nothing is at stake.
As far as sports go, ancestor hero-worship is good business but thats all it is- business.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Jesse Owens was a mediocre runner because today's runners are faster. It's not that people today have access to improved sports science which leads to improved training practices, fitness and nutrition, and can focus entirely on their sport instead of it being a hobby in a broader life because of the money and global interest involved, they are just better at running. If Jesse Owens was born in 1990 he would be to slow too even play football, what a hack.
 
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the big bambino

Cricketer Of The Year
Borg had one asset...
:laugh: Love it. Gotcha. Proven wrong with an actual example and out come all your excuses. I'm sure Borg had several assts. But serve and volley wasn't one of them was it? Should you reply explain away Agassi and Nastase too.

None of those men bowled consistently all day at Hobb's head and Hobbs did not face bodyliners for the simple fact that Bodyline came into existence after Hobbs had retired.

SRT has faced an entire session with over 25% of the deliveries aimed at his head. West Indies tried that in the 96 tour of India...

I am not thinking my opinion is greater than those who've played cricket. Living in the Americas, you'd be surprised how many west indies greats you run into and I can say off the record that more than one West Indian cricketer who'd played against Len Hutton thought he'd die if he had to face Marshall...
Jack and Ted did bowl bumpers. That's why Tyldesley was hit in the face. That's why the Poms called us squealers when we complained about bodyline. Hobbs faced all the bodyliners. He had not retired before them. Lack of reading again?

Whereas SRT in 94 faced the WI sans Amby. Go to advance search. Type in Tendulkar as the keyword. Then Altaican as the user name. Read. I've checked. The stats were true to time of writing. Didn't face fast men nearly as often as others. Record not so SRT like. Maybe he couldn't play either?

You met them eh? Hmm. Look I'll humour you. Presuming any WI cricketer who played Hutton was alive when you met them you can correct them. After all Hutton proved himself against the bumpers of Lindwall, Miller, Adcock Heine, Statham and Tyson right? Look the WI who hero worship Marshall are entitled to their opinion. But there is a catch. As an athlete of the 80s they must also admit he's an inferior athlete compared to today's standards. Cant downplay Hutton without similarly correcting for Marshall as time moves on. That's the concession you make when you belong to the cult of the now.
 
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