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***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

ohnoitsyou

International Regular
He couldn't even take Hawke Cup wickets for less than 30 - he's just another Brooke Walker, Tarun Nethula, Greg Loveridge et all that realistically has no business being thought about for representative cricket, let alone NZ cricket. I've seen at least a dozen NZ spinners at club who bowl some very good deliveries, but there is too much rubbish and not enough thought in between it. Horrible selection by NZ, considering he has no history of performance in longer form cricket.
Spinners are always going to struggle though, we just have never produced any good ones, whether that's due to them being generally ****, or conditions not allowing them develop I don't know. I really don't mind him in the ND set-up, he's obviously an investment which has a good chance of coming off, with Vettori's mentor-ship and pitches which are beginning to take a bit of turn. Agree that his national call up was a horrible selection though, but it's not as if anyone was knocking on the door, with Jeets and Nethula being blacklisted (Nethula is pretty gun btw) and no one could have expected that Martin would be so ****, leaving him as our lead spinner and then that Sodhi would do just enough to keep his place in the side.
 

Blocky

Banned
If we don't have a spinner of international quality, why do we persist in picking them? It's not about "allowing them to develop" - these are the conditions that they will be asked to play in half of their matches, New Zealand conditions. If they're unable to make a big impact in domestic cricket then they should never even get close to selection for test cricket. Sodhi has played 21 first class matches and has yet to get his average under 50 with the ball. There is more to indicate that he is a better option as a batsman who bowls a bit based on his performances so far, although his batting for ND isn't strong enough to reserve a place in the side either.

Meanwhile in the exact same team, with the exact same conditions, you have Kane Williamson who as a part timer, has out performed Sodhi and also out performed him in the tests and almost criminally, Jono Boult is being left out for Sodhi to play, despite being as capable with the bat and having a much better domestic record from his 16 matches.

I'd much rather see us use Kane Williamson as our spin option with some back up from someone like Ryder than give a position to a guy who should be under serious debate for his own province, let alone the national set up. The only way these guys are going to learn cricket isn't to play test cricket, it's to play domestic cricket and string together some consistent performances. As maligned as Vettori is, he goes back to domestic cricket and performs every time. So I don't buy this bull**** that we should select someone who hasn't proven themselves in representitive cricket on the basis of potential and the fact that a few people like the fact that he is a leg spinner who can land three out of six on the wicket.

ps, "Martin would be so ****" - Martin got selected to New Zealand about six years after he should've been, his performances at test level are comparable to Sodhi's at domestic level. Why do we consider Sodhi anything other than a failed prospect?

ND wise, he has all the hallmarks of being someone they're being asked to select. He came down from Auckland because he couldn't get in the side there (Bruce Martin = better) and suddenly he's beating out a flock of young talent that ND had been preparing a number of years like Mitchell Santner (who I'll argue has a better chance at being a consistent performer for ND than Sodhi), Josef Baker and Jono Boult. All of whom to this point have better performances in Hawke Cup and better performances in A cricket than Sodhi does.

Sodhi just reaks of a political choice, because NZ once again are fapping over the prospect of a leg spinner. We've seen this with Brooke Walker who was utterly horrid.
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Sodhi > Jono Boult. Fairly ridiculous statement, it's hardly like Jono Boult has been any good at all, at least Sodhi has promise. But yeah Sodhi should be on the fringe of ND, not NZ.

Williamson should be our spinner because our 2nd best spinner is Jeets. And Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling in Test cricket.
 

Prensel

U19 Cricketer
I'd much rather see us use Kane Williamson as our spin option with some back up from someone like Ryder than give a position to a guy who should be under serious debate for his own province, let alone the national set up.
So should we pick 4 seamers? Or 3 seamers with Corey/Ryder/Williamson backing up?
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
So should we pick 4 seamers? Or 3 seamers with Corey/Ryder/Williamson backing up?
Yeah he said a fourth seamer earlier iirc. Hesson/Edgar have already said Ryder's not in the Test frame. Southee back up to No. 8, Bennett or Henry come in.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Whyyyyyyy
Was just relayed into this thread via a radio interview after the 1st ODI iirc.

Nope, never made their bulletins by the looks. It's pretty much just easy listening music and games of office cricket at Radio Sport these days, occasionally taking a break to put some of your own thoughts about Milne into Shane Bond's mouth.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah he said a fourth seamer earlier iirc. Hesson/Edgar have already said Ryder's not in the Test frame. Southee back up to No. 8, Bennett or Henry come in.
utterly ludicrous.

He's the second best batsman in the country. I've said it before, but I'd be dropping Williamson before I leave out Ryder. Obviously I'm not dropping Williamson, but the point is they should be doing anything to get him in the team.
 

ohnoitsyou

International Regular
If we don't have a spinner of international quality, why do we persist in picking them? It's not about "allowing them to develop" - these are the conditions that they will be asked to play in half of their matches, New Zealand conditions. If they're unable to make a big impact in domestic cricket then they should never even get close to selection for test cricket. Sodhi has played 21 first class matches and has yet to get his average under 50 with the ball. There is more to indicate that he is a better option as a batsman who bowls a bit based on his performances so far, although his batting for ND isn't strong enough to reserve a place in the side either.

Meanwhile in the exact same team, with the exact same conditions, you have Kane Williamson who as a part timer, has out performed Sodhi and also out performed him in the tests and almost criminally, Jono Boult is being left out for Sodhi to play, despite being as capable with the bat and having a much better domestic record from his 16 matches.

I'd much rather see us use Kane Williamson as our spin option with some back up from someone like Ryder than give a position to a guy who should be under serious debate for his own province, let alone the national set up. The only way these guys are going to learn cricket isn't to play test cricket, it's to play domestic cricket and string together some consistent performances. As maligned as Vettori is, he goes back to domestic cricket and performs every time. So I don't buy this bull**** that we should select someone who hasn't proven themselves in representitive cricket on the basis of potential and the fact that a few people like the fact that he is a leg spinner who can land three out of six on the wicket.

ps, "Martin would be so ****" - Martin got selected to New Zealand about six years after he should've been, his performances at test level are comparable to Sodhi's at domestic level. Why do we consider Sodhi anything other than a failed prospect?

ND wise, he has all the hallmarks of being someone they're being asked to select. He came down from Auckland because he couldn't get in the side there (Bruce Martin = better) and suddenly he's beating out a flock of young talent that ND had been preparing a number of years like Mitchell Santner (who I'll argue has a better chance at being a consistent performer for ND than Sodhi), Josef Baker and Jono Boult. All of whom to this point have better performances in Hawke Cup and better performances in A cricket than Sodhi does.

Sodhi just reaks of a political choice, because NZ once again are fapping over the prospect of a leg spinner. We've seen this with Brooke Walker who was utterly horrid.
Agree with most of this.

However do we really want to tell Williamson that he's going to be our main spinner, when he's not the finished product with the bat yet.

Ideally in the future he will be a proper test match all-rounder, but until then we need a someone to bowl quick overs so McCullum doesn't get a match ban. Actually on second thoughts, lets go with four quicks so Ryder can get his rightful spot. :ph34r:
 

Blocky

Banned
Sodhi > Jono Boult. Fairly ridiculous statement, it's hardly like Jono Boult has been any good at all, at least Sodhi has promise. But yeah Sodhi should be on the fringe of ND, not NZ.

Williamson should be our spinner because our 2nd best spinner is Jeets. And Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling in Test cricket.
Yet Sodhi has only taken three more wickets than Bolt yet played 5 more matches, same conditions, lower average, better strike rate, lower RPO. So why again do we think Sodhi is a better player than Boult? Because he bowls right arm leg spin? He's been gifted his opportunities for ND and off the back of that, even worse, he got gifted opportunities for NZ. He's proven in both his domestic and international cricket that he has no sustained control over his line and length and the only wickets he gets are mistakes from players. That's fine at club cricket, anyone of us who has played any level of club cricket has seen spinners taking bagfuls of wickets due to the mistakes of the opposition but in test cricket? Even first class? Horrible option.

Agree with most of this.

However do we really want to tell Williamson that he's going to be our main spinner, when he's not the finished product with the bat yet.

Ideally in the future he will be a proper test match all-rounder, but until then we need a someone to bowl quick overs so McCullum doesn't get a match ban. Actually on second thoughts, lets go with four quicks so Ryder can get his rightful spot. :ph34r:
Look, I don't think it's about telling Williamson that he's our main bowler. I think it's about going into matches with four specialist quick bowlers who each offer something different at the crease, in the knowledge that Williamson can and has stepped up with the ball and will offer you more than the current options not named Vettori, who seems more interested in his coaching career than being an NZ cricketer now.

Ryder should be playing and in my view, either as an opening batsman, or as #5 with McCullum opening. I think our hole at the moment is the top order and McCullum has performed the job with some degree of success. I also think Ryder has the tools to be a very good opening bat in test. But they won't select him and I'm 90% sure they will select Sodhi for the first test.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Ryder should be playing and in my view, either as an opening batsman, or as #5 with McCullum opening. I think our hole at the moment is the top order and McCullum has performed the job with some degree of success. I also think Ryder has the tools to be a very good opening bat in test.
Agree with all of this, but McCullum opening and Ryder at 5 would bring more runs than the other way around.
 

Howsie

Cricketer Of The Year
Yet Sodhi has only taken three more wickets than Bolt yet played 5 more matches, same conditions, lower average, better strike rate, lower RPO. So why again do we think Sodhi is a better player than Boult? Because he bowls right arm leg spin? He's been gifted his opportunities for ND and off the back of that, even worse, he got gifted opportunities for NZ. He's proven in both his domestic and international cricket that he has no sustained control over his line and length and the only wickets he gets are mistakes from players. That's fine at club cricket, anyone of us who has played any level of club cricket has seen spinners taking bagfuls of wickets due to the mistakes of the opposition but in test cricket? Even first class? Horrible option.
Because anyone with half decent cricket knowledge can see the massive chasm between them both talent wise and ability wise.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Christ on a bike. The Sodhi trash talking is ridiculous. Young attacking bowler has expensive average in first year of FC cricket shock!!! Like Bennett, McClenaghan, Bracewelll also had ......

Also the stats cherry picking is annoying, Sodhi's comparable stats to Boult are a it better when it's actually same teams, same wickets etc as implied. his Plunket shield average is 48, yeah still not great but......

Glad I have managed to up Sodhi without trashing Jono Boult, I saw Jono bowl a doosra in the HRV which got me excited. Now expect 4 pages of lecturing about not knowing the difference between spin and drift .......
 
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Prensel

U19 Cricketer
Well if Ross does not play one of the test matches due to his wife having a baby, Jesse might play one of the tests.
 

BeeGee

International Captain
India win toss and bowl. Again.

Bennett in for Mills and Aaron in for I Sharma.
 
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wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Christ on a bike. The Sodhi trash talking is ridiculous. Young attacking bowler has expensive average in first year of FC cricket shock!!! Like Bennett, McClenaghan, Bracewelll also had ......

Also the stats cherry picking is annoying, Sodhi's comparable stats to Boult are a it better when it's actually same teams, same wickets etc as implied. his Plunket shield average is 48, yeah still not great but......

Glad I have managed to up Sodhi without trashing Jono Boult, I saw Jono bowl a doosra in the HRV which got me excited. Now expect 4 pages of lecturing about not knowing the difference between spin and drift .......
I see no trash talking, I see the sensible notion that a guy averaging over 50 shouldn't be anywhere near test cricket
 

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