Haha geez you're like my ex girlfriend. First off, the 22 year old comparison is way off base, we aren't selecting 22-year-old Gup. Secondly, we are not Australia. Why make comparisons with a completely different system/talent pool? I can tell you Australia wouldn't be picking Daryl Mitchell, either. In fact, didn't the very same Daryl Mitchell come back from said country because he didn't see himself afforded the opportunities he'd have here? He's a decent player, no doubt, and will only get better as he faces a world-class bowler in Trent swinging it both ways in the nets on a semi-regular occasion. Then in a couple of years he might be in line to stand up to the Blocky international consistency test
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***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14
- Thread starter BeeGee
- Start date
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
oh damn completely forgot about KW. Will remain at 3, obviously.
oh dear, here we go again.
I have not looked at the averages (they are painful to extract so please provide) I know his FC average was poor, but in list A cricket Guptill was winning matches for Auckland as a 22 year old by scoring big, which is why he was first selected in the ODIs, and he proceeded to score a century on debut. In Guptills first year of ODI cricket he was included in the ICC team of the year-the last NZ batsman to be included in any ICC team iirc- so maybe he was ready for ODI’s.
Unfortunatly and I think most people here will agree with this he was not ready for test cricket, similar to Ross Taylor who was not ready for test cricket on the 07 RSA tour, as both these player did not have a method for scoring runs in the long format of the game
Guptill is not going to be dropped despite your whishes but I am curious in your opinion what sort of numbers does he need to put up this year in ODI cricket to deserve his spot at the world cup?
Edit: Grammar
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KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
I wasn't comparing Guptill with Bradman, but showing how ridiculous it is to be taking big scores off a player and then saying they have a crap average.
If you take away all centuries, and not outs:
Fleming averages 26.40 opening
Guptill averages 26.08 opening
Astle averages 25.27 opening
But once you start playing with statistics like that, they're basically meaningless.
Like saying human being only live to an average age of 55.* We die so ****ing young!!!!!!!
*once you taking out all the people who lived past 80.
Guptill may be going through a lean patch, but he still averages more than any other one day opener in NZ history not named Turner.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
This is actually not a meaningless stat, IMO. But would be better and easier to just take the median or something similar.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
You could also use the median in cricket, as opposed to average minus hundreds.
ohnoitsyou
International Regular
still funny this time round though
Blocky
Banned
I still can't believe the defense people attempt to make on Guptill.
Statistically, he's completely incompetent and has been since the start of his career and anyone with an objective view on performance in sport would see that. If we take his performance over the last three seasons and remove the easy runs that he (and every other side) currently score against a toothless Zimbabwe team, even including two not out centuries against England, he averages a paltry 17.55, with an average strike rate per innings of 57.04.
That however gives you no picture of consistency, as it simply takes all results no matter how good or bad. If we look at his median inning stats, his median innings - i.e what he can be expected to score more often than not, is a terrible 7.5. His median strike rate, again, i.e what he can expected to hit those 7.5 at, is a horrible 51.25
Guptill will not be in the world cup squad, simply because we have a series against India in which he'll score SFA, a series against West Indies who he'll likely score once in all the limited overs stuff and a series against Sri Lanka - who he'll score SFA against. He doesn't have the usual escape clause and eventually, a run of single figure scores off 20 balls will be noticed if it hasn't already, by an increasingly statistically aware NZ Cricket team.
Statistically, he's completely incompetent and has been since the start of his career and anyone with an objective view on performance in sport would see that. If we take his performance over the last three seasons and remove the easy runs that he (and every other side) currently score against a toothless Zimbabwe team, even including two not out centuries against England, he averages a paltry 17.55, with an average strike rate per innings of 57.04.
That however gives you no picture of consistency, as it simply takes all results no matter how good or bad. If we look at his median inning stats, his median innings - i.e what he can be expected to score more often than not, is a terrible 7.5. His median strike rate, again, i.e what he can expected to hit those 7.5 at, is a horrible 51.25
Guptill will not be in the world cup squad, simply because we have a series against India in which he'll score SFA, a series against West Indies who he'll likely score once in all the limited overs stuff and a series against Sri Lanka - who he'll score SFA against. He doesn't have the usual escape clause and eventually, a run of single figure scores off 20 balls will be noticed if it hasn't already, by an increasingly statistically aware NZ Cricket team.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Huh? My quick look at statsguru states that after you account for his efforts against Zimbabwe he's scored 999 runs at 34.44 over the last 3 years.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
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Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Look, Guptill's inconsistency is a legitimate area of concern, but given that it really isn't long since he crushed a couple of match-winning hundreds it's silly to say that he should be on the chopping block, especially given that the most likely replacement (Latham) has yet to really set the world alight.
Flem274*
123/5
Blocky
Banned
You've gone back four seasons, not three.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
Yeah, we know what a median is. And we know Guptills is poor.
But we're not the ones purposely doctoring statistics to suit our narrative.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Oh OK, so you mean since the beginning of the 2011/12 season, not since three years. In that case, Guptill's average still comes up as 33.50 when you take out his matches against Zimbabwe. It sounds to me like you're still leaving his efforts against England out of the analysis.