Has Jos Buttler put a case for a test place forward?

[Cooky Monster]

Flower and Gooch would ruin Buttler, he would be scoring 15 off 70 balls before you know it.

 

[hendrix]

Flower and Gooch would ruin Buttler, he would be scoring 15 off 70 balls before you know it.

There's only so much you can blame the coaches and the captain for the batsmen's failures. It's getting rather tiring tbh.

 

[Adders]

There's only so much you can blame the coaches and the captain for the batsmen's failures. It's getting rather tiring tbh.

Yeah this.......3 years ago Flower and Gooch were geniuses, now they destroy batsmen

As for the subject....Prior will be back, of that I'm confident. NFI where we look once he is finished, but I don't think that time has come just yet. A more pressing concern is where do we find a spinner?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Gooch was useless when he was batting coach at Durham, don't know what he's done to warrant a reputation from his time with Essex or England. Essex are a team with a lot of talent going nowhere and achieving nothing.

About the only thing you could credit him with is batsmen going on to score really big hundreds, but now they can't even score hundreds let alone big ones.

 

[Cabinet96]

Flower and Gooch would ruin Buttler, he would be scoring 15 off 70 balls before you know it.

He's already played under both.

 

[theegyptian]

I'd like to see England with 4 seamers when Stokes plays, I think only having 3 seamers regardless of who they are is going to lead to get periods of innocuousness/injury sooner rather than later - obviously if an injury happens during the match you're in trouble. So you can maybe do it very occasionally, but I don't think it'll work for longer than that. There's also the fact that whoever England pick to bat probably isn't going to do that well anyway, so you may as well play to your strengths - bowling. England will have that brittleness for a while regardless.

The 4 seamers for this Spring/Summer should be quite simple really - Anderson, Broad, Onions and Stokes. The only way Onions shouldn't play is if England are hell bent on a spinner who can't bat and need a stronger tail. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner get picked if he does well with the Lions (if he ends up replacing Kerrigan in the squad).

Have to agree that playing Stokes as a third seamer seems a good way to kill all his promise and overburden him with an extreme workload that will inevitably lead to a form dip in someone so young and unpolished

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think the only way we'd seriously consider Stokes as one of three seamers would be if we were looking to play two spinners, which is how he got the gig in the first place.

l would say there's literally no chance of that happening in the summer, but who the **** knows any more?

 

[Watson33]

Yeah this.......3 years ago Flower and Gooch were geniuses, now they destroy batsmen

As for the subject....Prior will be back, of that I'm confident. NFI where we look once he is finished, but I don't think that time has come just yet. A more pressing concern is where do we find a spinner?

Prior would be my first choice too but I do think Buttler should be in the squad ahead of Bairstow. Once Prior is done, Buttler will have had a few years at Lancs and if he scores well and keeps well for them I can only see one option when Prior calls it a day. I feel Bairstow might be another Hick and dominate the domestic game but never quite get to grips with International cricket. I too have no idea where to look for a spinner. If I recall correctly, Kerrigan was the best spinner in the Championship last year in terms of wickets but we all know how his debut went. Other than maybe Rayner I think every decent spinner in the championship has been given a go and failed.

 

[alw1971]

Bairstow, Buttler, Kieswetter all attacking players but in the main inconsistent. Kieswetter must be in with a chance with experience opening batting. Rather him open near top rather than Cook or Root in Limited overs.

Why not play all 3 ??????????

 

[Watson33]

Bairstow, Buttler, Kieswetter all attacking players but in the main inconsistent. Kieswetter must be in with a chance with experience opening batting. Rather him open near top rather than Cook or Root in Limited overs.

Why not play all 3 ??????????

More on about the test side here. Wouldn't want Bairstow anywhere near the ODI side tbh for two reasons: 1.) His ODI and List A averages are shocking and 2.) where would you put him? He isn't a power hitter to have in the middle order (and isn't better than anyone in the current middle order) and I doubt his technique against the new ball would be good enough for him to open.

 

[grecian]

Bairstow, Buttler, Kieswetter all attacking players but in the main inconsistent. Kieswetter must be in with a chance with experience opening batting. Rather him open near top rather than Cook or Root in Limited overs.

Why not play all 3 ??????????

Guessing Because Kieswetter has been rubbish when he's done it.

I stand by what I often witter about Kieswetter is a much better First-class bat than limited-overs, but he can't keep. Really think he should have concentrated on being a batsman, and let Jos have the gloves, would have been the best for somerset, England and the two players.

Yet that boat has sailed, I'm not bitter though

 

[Pothas]

Agree Stokes should not be a 3rd seamer but as a 4th bowler I think he would be fine. Lets just pick the mighty beard. This way we can pick Buttler.

Cook
Robson
Ali
Pietersen
Bell
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Onions

I actually am in favour of Prior coming back if he shows county form but I like this side

 

[grecian]

Agree Stokes should not be a 3rd seamer but as a 4th bowler I think he would be fine. Lets just pick the mighty beard. This way we can pick Buttler.

Cook
Robson
Ali
Pietersen
Bell
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Onions

I actually am in favour of Prior coming back if he shows county form but I like this side

Ali and Buttler, sometimes I just feel your a better version of me

 

[Pothas]

That side was just for you.

 

[GIMH]

Get a room dickheads

 

[Dan]

Given the other alternatives for the spinner question, why not stick with Borthwick for a few games at least? He didn't look Test standard in Sydney, but none of the spinners being talked about are any likely to do better tbh. Rayner's a less-effective version of Borthwick IMO.

I reckon Borthwick has potential with both bat and ball - decent enough, uncomplicated action and in the second dig he showed quite a bit of promise when he got it in the right spots.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Given the other alternatives for the spinner question, why not stick with Borthwick for a few games at least? He didn't look Test standard in Sydney, but none of the spinners being talked about are any likely to do better tbh. Rayner's a less-effective version of Borthwick IMO.

I reckon Borthwick has potential with both bat and ball - decent enough, uncomplicated action and in the second dig he showed quite a bit of promise when he got it in the right spots.

Noooo! More or less the exact opposite as a bowler. Borthwick, as is tyro leggies' wont, will serve up an awful lot of dross but might produce the occasional magic ball.

Ollie's very much a traditional English finger spinner. Keeps it tight and is more likely to deceive batsman with his subtle semi-variations than any massive turn. Also has the virtue of being tall, so can get decent bounce too, when conditions suit.

Rayner doesn't actually put much work on the ball, certainly nothing like Swann or even Panesar, but I think his MO probably suits England better than Borthwick's.

 

[Dan]

Noooo! More or less the exact opposite as a bowler. Borthwick, as is tyro leggies' wont, will serve up an awful lot of dross but might produce the occasional magic ball.

Ollie's very much a traditional English finger spinner. Keeps it tight and is more likely to deceive batsman with his subtle semi-variations than any massive turn. Also has the virtue of being tall, so can get decent bounce too, when conditions suit.

Rayner doesn't actually put much work on the ball, certainly nothing like Swann or even Panesar, but I think his MO probably suits England better than Borthwick's.

Yeah, that was poorly worded. Meant it in more of a "spinner not expected to do much with the ball, but be a good #8 batsman and decent enough in the field" way, not referring to their style of bowling. Rayner's selection would strike me as a second coming of Ashley Giles, and FMD I do not want another Giles in international cricket. Would rather see them stick by Borthwick after a passable debut than go down the Australia route of "pick every spinner in the country even if they're a batsman".

Then again, I do like (and rate) Borthwick more than the average CWer (PEWS or NUFAN to confirm).

 

[Cabinet96]

Geez, really not convinced of Ollie Rayner for test cricket. Would probably keep it tight, but doubt he'd at all be a wicket taking threat.

Would prefer him over Borhtwick though.

 

[Dan]

Ok looking at his FC record now, he's got a far better bowling average than I remembered. Thought he was up around the 35-36 mark and had one good year, not that his record was actually passable.

Just brings more ammunition to the 'lol England aren't English' brigade though, being born in Germany and whatnot