England's Problems (Potential answers?)

[Riggins]

Matt Prior would be a really good captain. Aggressive and good tactical thinker, but obviously he is playing like **** and WK + skip is too big anyway.

If he remembers how to hit the ball you could just play him at 6 as a batsman? Never going to average 50 but low-mid 40's and if he's a good captain it could be a good move.

 

[Cooky Monster]

How many England threads do we have now? I can't remember which one is which.

On Compton, obviously it is impossible to know but I would guess that he would have produced similar reuslts to Carberry. Both are more than capable of scoring hundreds against Sri Lanka and probably India this coming summer but neither is a long term option.

What is it with this 'hes not a long term option crap' i keep seeing everywhere, its a load of bull****, Compton is 30 ffs, its all about the here and now, who gives a **** if Compton won't be around in 5/6 years? if hes the best bat then he should be in the side, same goes for Carberry, if hes up to it then there is no problem.

Do we stick with Root and Bairstow even though they are not good enough just because they are long term options? its this bull**** flawed logic thats played a part in this **** stain of a tour.

Nothing personal btw Pothas, its just that i keep seeing that said and it winds be up because its a total nonsense.

 

[Cooky Monster]

Seems to me we have a lot of problems right now.

I would say that the majority of that is down to inconsistency in selections.

1) Batsmen. Nick Compton was dropped for seemingly being too inconsistent at the top of the order, he was also going slow - but it now seems like that may not have been Compton's fault and just the fact (as I said at the time) that Cook has drained all positiveness out of these batsmen and they all seem scared to give their wickets away. Replaced by Joe Root, who, asides from scoring one hundred (Compton scored two), didn't seem to do a lot right either, who was in turn replaced by Carberry at the top of the order. Root dropped down to six, so perhaps England felt that he wasn't good enough against the new ball (otherwise why would you drop him from opening in the first place?).

So after one test match when Trott goes home, Root is instantly promoted back to number three, where he could (and has) faced a ball before the opener at the other end has faced a ball - does that make sense considering he was dropped from this spot just one match before? In the first test Root scored 2 and 26*. Is that enough to get you your place back at the top of the order? Seems so according to England.

2) Bowlers. In a seemingly similar situtation Steven Finn was dropped after the first test match at Trent Bridge in the summer, Cook refused to turn to Finn on that final morning when it looked like we were going to lose the game. Since then Finn didn't do anything of note for Middlesex yet instantly regained his position in the squad ahead of other quick bowlers (Onions) - and also when we had two "tall" bowlers in the squad.

Tremlett - purely picked on a hunch and the fact he was decent down under last time. 32 wickets at an average of 33 for Surrey in Championship Cricket yet he was picked ahead of Onions, Jordan, Rushworth, Anyon, Sidebottom etc. etc.. (all whom took more wickets than him in Championship Cricket).

3) Wicketkeeper. When the squad was selected in was said that "there is no back up keeper" "oh it doesn't matter unless Prior breaks a finger we won't need one". I think it was ahead of the first test (might have been the second) when Prior had a leg injury (?) and was a doubt for the test. At that point we should have called up whoever was a proper wicketkeeper batsmen. Whether that was Davies, Buttler, Kieswetter, Read, Foster etc. etc.. just a proper wicketkeeper.

Again Bairstow - dropped in the summer for not scoring enough runs he regained his place in the side by doing NOTHING.


Does this show that England is a closed shop? Finn, Bairstow and Tremlett for me do not deserve to be in Australia let alone around the team. Root can bat at six but he did nothing to get up to number three?

I think the consistent issue is the leadership, the selection policy obviously isn't based on form and just based on whose face fits Flower & Cooks world.

My first selection would be to remove Cook as captain, I don't care about people saying "who replaces him". Cook is not a good leader. Oh he won in India, I would say that was down to very poor Indian batting against Monty & Swann with good support from Jimmy and the other quicks. Very few of the wickets were down to good captaincy, more bowled and LBWS that planning. We won the Ashes at home but had wickets that suited us but the reality is we have been going downhill in Test Cricket since the New Zealand away series, we have gone back to the olden days in ODI Cricket with Cook, Bell & Trott the top 3 in ODI Cricket nudging it around at snails pace.

In the space of two years we have gone from this agressive, winning side who take no sh*t to a defensive, negative, frail team, batting at a snail pace which means the opposition is ALWAYS in the game, we never get away from them and put them under pressure.

Who is the best captain in County Cricket? Collingwood won the Championship didn't he but he has been and gone. Who are the other English captains? Gale, Read, Troughton, Trescothick, Foster, Adams, Tredwell, Chappel, Peters, Mitchell?

Do we do what South Africa did with Smith and say to a young lad - there's the captaincy, we trust in you and will support you for the next five years?

I haven't got all the answers but the inconsistencies wind me up, this team is going nowhere except backwards and the players we are picking, selecting - doesn't make sense. For me something has to change and the leadership of the team has to be that.

Very good post.

The Compton situation hacked me right off at the time, why oh why he didn't get told after the NZ tour that his place was safe for the Ashes god only knows, he was put under unecassary pressure in the home matches, basically for me his face didn't fit, he got told to go away and score runs and he did! complete load of bollocks, similar goes for Taylor aswell, he should of been given a proper go that the likes or Morgan, Bopara, Bairstow etc were afforded, as you point out in this post its a closed shop and has been for sometime, if your face doesn't fit you are ****ed unless you are insanely talented like KP.

I could go on, we had this coming to us, didn't think it would be this spectacular but it was always on the cards, Giles would be a complete was of time to, look at how we play the ODI game under him, everyone blasts 300s nowadays and we play defensive boring cricket for 40 overs and then scramble to get 270/280.

 

[theegyptian]

The problem is neither Compton or Carberry have shown they are better than Root. Their age does mean that they have to show that they arre better than Root who is 10 years younger. England have the time to develop Root's game. If you come into the test arena at 30 or 33 your game better be well developed because that is you game. Your not changing - or at least it isn't in England's interests to put loads of time into development if they are gonna quit or have diminshed performance due to waning sight, fitness in 3 or 4 years

Root has the luxury of time. Compton and Carberry don't. They have to get it right first time because it's not worth England spending a year or two working on their game for Carberry to only be average. Root can work on his game, get dropped, and still come back in a few years with experience.

 

[Cooky Monster]

Oh and did i mention Bairstow and Root are both ****, cringeworthy how the likes of Vaughan and others bigged those 2 up to be something they are not, reminds of football, as soon as a young player shows a bit of promise/talent hes hyped beyond belief and people start talking all sorts unrealistic ****, look no further than Ross Barkley at Everton now, its ridiculous.

 

[Cooky Monster]

The problem is neither Compton or Carberry have shown they are better than Root. Their age does mean that they have to show that they arre better than Root who is 10 years younger. England have the time to develop Root's game. If you come into the test arena at 30 or 33 your game better be well developed because that is you game. Your not changing - or at least it isn't in England's interests to put loads of time into development if they are gonna quit or have diminshed performance due to waning sight, fitness in 3 or 4 years

Compton showed more than enough for me, him and Cook laid the foundations very well in India, although Compton didn't get the big scores he looked good and done a sound job, 2 tons in NZ, yes he was poor at home but i think by then he knew his face didn't fit, also the tactics/coaching have to play a part, why did he clam up like that?, Carberry is doing the same now, Root does it aswell, its no coincidence, players are not being allowed to play their natural game, it ****s their heads up quite clearly, the coaching is utterly dire defensive minded crap.

Let the players play their natural game, the coaching/management has strangled the life out of to many players now, look at Finn, what a joke that situation is.

 

[theegyptian]

If he remembers how to hit the ball you could just play him at 6 as a batsman? Never going to average 50 but low-mid 40's and if he's a good captain it could be a good move.

Whatever anybody said Prior was never good enough to bat 6 for England solely as a batsman. His game is too high variance(risky). Although his keeping has been trash in these last couple of series' before it had been decent.

I think Prior would probably be a decent captain. And keeping and captaining I don't see as that big of a burden. It's not Alec Stewart type open the batting, keeping and captaincy.

Clearly captaincy talk is a long way away now though as he ain't even in the team at present.

 

[GIMH]

If we had an in-form Prior I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 6 and Stokes at 7, following the formula we used in the 2009 Ashes. Of course, it was disastrous when we used said formula in the game Flintoff didn't play. But given Prior's form, it'll never happen.

I agree, btw, that he's best off at 7 anyway, but I think it's something they'd have done, or at least considered.

 

[grecian]

Pfft, I'm all for making changes, but the Captaincy (however inept it's been this series) needs to remain with him, as all other options are awful.

KP and Broad, possibly on different sides of factions, who knows? Yet neither seem mature enough to do it, neither seems particularly selfless on their outlook on life. Prior not certain of his place. Jimmeh coming to the end of his career. Bell, let's face it the bloke clearly doesn't want to captain, he never has, or he'd have been in the mix before.

So let's do what Australia have done with Clarke, and keep Cook, yet change things round about with the back-room staff (gooch has got to go surely, hopefully for Thorpe), and a bit with the Team. Give him players he's confident with might be a start.

 

[Tangles]

Cook has no tactical sense as captain but maybe he could learn some of that. The other part of captaincy is man management. What evidence is there that he is any good at that? That's harder to learn.

If Cooks your only option then sack Flower and hope it gets better...

 

[theegyptian]

Cook has no tactical sense as captain but maybe he could learn some of that. The other part of captaincy is man management. What evidence is there that he is any good at that? That's harder to learn.

If Cooks your only option then sack Flower and hope it gets better...

Well he did manage to bring KP back from the brink and seems to have assimilated KP back into the fold without too many ructions.

 

[grecian]

Well he did manage to bring KP back from the brink and seems to have assimilated KP back into the fold without too many ructions.

Yeah, I have no idea about the ins and outs, but I'm reasonably sure one of the reasons he was picked was he got on well with everyone. Yet maybe that's it, not enough authority.

Think it will come though, like with Clarke.

 

[GIMH]

Authority will be a lot easier if there are 3 or 4 changes to the team. He basically started out skippering Strauss's side, plus Strauss's replacement (as in batting replacement) and the revolving 6 and that was a side he was part of. Now that a new era appears to be dawning, this will become Cook's side. If he can't stamp his authority on that, then we can call him on it.

He shouldn't be sacked, definitely not for me.

 

[Pothas]

Should be no question about Cook for me, or Flower for that matter.

Swann and Trott going has already changed the character of this side a great deal. They are also probably the two hardest positions to replace, England have always struggled for a number 3 and a spin bowler. Bell has to bat at 3 this summer, is be of the only things I am at all sure about.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Think the most important thing is who is the coach and the other backroom members of staff for the summer. Until we know that then we have no idea which players may be picked.

 

[Tangles]

Well he did manage to bring KP back from the brink and seems to have assimilated KP back into the fold without too many ructions.

Maybe he should consult KP in the field then. He would have to know more about bowling and field changes than Cook has shown.

Definitely needs to learn now to tell senior bowlers they can't put a slip at extra cover after 1 boundary.

 

[Cooky Monster]

Cook has no tactical sense as captain but maybe he could learn some of that. The other part of captaincy is man management. What evidence is there that he is any good at that? That's harder to learn.

If Cooks your only option then sack Flower and hope it gets better...

Thats the thing though isn't it, he isn't learning a thing is he?, just look at the last test for the example of that, it really won't get any better, people are kidding themselves if they think it will.

Love Cook the player, may not be the most fluent or pleasing on the eye but he is one of the best around and one of our best ever, the team needs Cook the quality batsman back, he should resign the captaincy, he'll go up in my book if he does, if he hangs onto it then **** him tbh, we desperately need a fresh start after this shambles.

 

[Cooky Monster]

Pfft, I'm all for making changes, but the Captaincy (however inept it's been this series) needs to remain with him, as all other options are awful.

KP and Broad, possibly on different sides of factions, who knows? Yet neither seem mature enough to do it, neither seems particularly selfless on their outlook on life. Prior not certain of his place. Jimmeh coming to the end of his career. Bell, let's face it the bloke clearly doesn't want to captain, he never has, or he'd have been in the mix before.

So let's do what Australia have done with Clarke, and keep Cook, yet change things round about with the back-room staff (gooch has got to go surely, hopefully for Thorpe), and a bit with the Team. Give him players he's confident with might be a start.

Cook has proved beyond the initial doubts that he is indeed an awful captain, uninspiring, unintelligent, negative (beyond belief at times) and tactical cluelessness, could go on....

il'd take any of the players you mention over him, anyway we need him scoring runs first and foremost, that really is the most important thing for him and the team, its strange that people think he will learn when all the evidence is there that he isn't learning a thing, its getting worse if anything.

 

[steds]

England have one problem. Or four, depending on how you look at it. Bairstow, Ballance, Bresnan and Root. The side has been terminally weakened by Yorkshire players. The only two other times in the last 50 years that England played more than 3 Yorkshire players in an Ashes series - 02/03 (Dawson, Hoggard, Silverwood, Vaughan & White) and 1964 (Boycott, Sharpe, Taylor, Trueman). The results of those series - Australian wins. Coincidence?...

 

[wpdavid]

England have one problem. Or four, depending on how you look at it. Bairstow, Ballance, Bresnan and Root. The side has been terminally weakened by Yorkshire players. The only two other times in the last 50 years that England played more than 3 Yorkshire players in an Ashes series - 02/03 (Dawson, Hoggard, Silverwood, Vaughan & White) and 1964 (Boycott, Sharpe, Taylor, Trueman). The results of those series - Australian wins. Coincidence?...

otoh we usually need a Yorkshire captain to regain the Ashes, so we'd better bring in Gayle asap this summer..

Or else one from Middlesex. But I have nfi who their captain is nowadays.