*Official* Fourth Test at the MCG

[Tangles]

Watson, George and Warner likely to go 20/20 mode in that situation. Clarke and Smith more likely to bat normally. Rad will be slog sweeping as usual.

 

[91Jmay]

Monty should play both Tests as a lone spinner. At least he is just an average Test bowler rather than Tredwell/Borthwick.

 

[Spark]

Monty should play both Tests as a lone spinner. At least he is just an average Test bowler rather than Tredwell/Borthwick.

Yeah, and I'm very surprised that anyone is talking about anything else as an option - though I don't think many are.

 

[theegyptian]

So Monty plays in Melbourne but will be dropped if he gets carted. What a pisser. The forgotten victims here are Kerrigan and Watson.

No he almost certainly won't be dropped. They're just covering bases.

Just that even though England fans aren't going to like it, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Tredwell has a couple of year test career now. They'll be loath to risk Kerrigan or anyone else <30 again because they ain't good enough.
Tredwell isn't good enough but at least he would be steady(average 40 but go at 3rpo) and isn't terrible with the bat or in the field. Monty isn't exactly trusted by the England management. It would be a holding move and unexciting but it could definitely happen whilst they wait for someone else to develop a little.

England hopefully are going to resist the massive calls for changes. Change too much and you're gonna be left with inexperienced players, some of them not ready and potentially ruin their careers. Better off going with Tredwell than Rafiq, Ravi Patel or Kerrigan at this point. Against India and Sri Lanka next summer they could well go down the 4 seamers plus Stokes + Root route given the ease those teams play spinners.

 

[Tangles]

Looks like Harris will get till the morning of the match to prove his fitness but isn't likely to be available for Sydney also. Maybe Dougeh will get a home test then.

 

[Tangles]

As long as its not Faulkner. Great time for a thumb injury.

 

[Scaly piscine]

As I said earlier if Borthwick plays it should be mainly as a batsman. If you play him you need to have 4 other bowlers, his bowling is a luxury rather than someone you are going to get x overs out of each day.

 

[Prince EWS]

As I said earlier if Borthwick plays it should be mainly as a batsman. If you play him you need to have 4 other bowlers, his bowling is a luxury rather than someone you are going to get x overs out of each day.

Could work out okay with Stokes in the side though - Stokes supplementing the fact that Borthwick isn't really a frontline bowler and Borthwick supplementing the fact that Stokes isn't really quite good enough to bat six at Test level yet.

Of course it could backfire into a situation where neither of them was really contributing in a meaningful way at all, but I suppose that would be the rationale.

 

[Tangles]

If they misfire with the ball in the same innings you only have 3 bowlers plus part timers. Would be the same as Woakes and Kerrigan. One was average and the other ****e. You pressure the other 3 and the captain for marginally better batting.

Might be worth trying Stokes as the 4 th bowler and playing the extra bat.

6 Ballance
7 Stokes
8 Bresnan
9 Broad
10 Prior

 

[Tangles]

Didn't think that through. Pushing Prior down the order distracted me. No room for Monty and Anderson doing that. 1 of Broad, Anderson and Bresnan misses out. Probably Bresnan if Broad is fit.

 

[fredfertang]

Borthwick is a bit like Steve Smith, 'cept he's a decent cricketer

 

[steds]

Nah. Smith > Borthwick

 

[Tangles]

Borthwick is a bit like Steve Smith, 'cept he's a decent cricketer

TPC > random English player.

 

[Hooksey]

Australia's form turnaround was not kick started by Johnson.

Interesting opinion, and you are entitled to it. But Johnson's figures clearly demonstrate he has been far more than a mathematical coincidence in Australia's change of fortunate:

Australia lost 3-0 in England and was a precarious 6 for 132 on day one of this series.

Enter Johnson with an invaluable 64 and a partnership of 114 with Haddin. Australia's 295 still didn't look many though until Johnson tore into England taking 4-61 and helped dismiss them for 136. The 2nd innings was a continuation of the Johnson show with 39 not out and 5 for 42, and the man of the match award. Australia 1-0.

Johnson wasn't content to merely kickstart the turn around in Australia's form and fortune. Two tests later and Johnson has 23 wickets at 15.47, including 2 man of the match awards, and Australia have the Ashes.

 

[Tangles]

Interesting opinion, and you are entitled to it. But Johnson's figures clearly demonstrate he has been far more than a mathematical coincidence in Australia's change of fortunate:

Australia lost 3-0 in England and was a precarious 6 for 132 on day one of this series.

Enter Johnson with an invaluable 64 and a partnership of 114 with Haddin. Australia's 295 still didn't look many though until Johnson tore into England taking 4-61 and helped dismiss them for 136. The 2nd innings was a continuation of the Johnson show with 39 not out and 5 for 42, and the man of the match award. Australia 1-0.

Johnson wasn't content to merely kickstart the turn around in Australia's form and fortune. Two tests later and Johnson has 23 wickets at 15.47, including 2 man of the match awards, and Australia have the Ashes.

Get a room.

 

[Hooksey]

Get a room.

Which part of the post do you disagree with >

Interesting opinion, and you are entitled to it. But Johnson's figures clearly demonstrate he has been far more than a mathematical coincidence in Australia's change of fortunate:

Australia lost 3-0 in England and was a precarious 6 for 132 on day one of this series.

Enter Johnson with an invaluable 64 and a partnership of 114 with Haddin. Australia's 295 still didn't look many though until Johnson tore into England taking 4-61 and helped dismiss them for 136. The 2nd innings was a continuation of the Johnson show with 39 not out and 5 for 42, and the man of the match award. Australia 1-0.

Johnson wasn't content to merely kickstart the turn around in Australia's form and fortune. Two tests later and Johnson has 23 wickets at 15.47, including 2 man of the match awards, and Australia have the Ashes.

 

[91Jmay]

You are asking Tangles to throw an educated opinion about cricket in there mate, wouldn't expect a response. He is only good for **** one-liners.

I think that acting like the gulf between these sides has been one player is a bit much to be honest. Your batsmen have been better, your bowlers better, they've been captained better and have fielded better.

 

[andyc]

Nah. Smith > Borthwick

Yeah, going purely by his Cricinfo profile, he seems a better bowler but a considerably lesser batsman than the Champ.

 

[Tangles]

MJ has been a factor but youre over stating it and your going on and on about it. The number of 100s shows how big the gulf in batting has been. In England we were all worried about the runs we got from no 6 but we could be carrying anyone there atm given how much the top 5 and Rad have done. The batting then feeds into the fielding and the bowling. When you have low totals to bowl at everyone is under pressure England have felt that but Australia havent at home. We did in England though.

MJ has been very good but he has been one cog in a very good attack. Lyon, Rhyno and Siddle have all taken big wickets. They have all taken important top order wickets. So MJ has been fresh to fire out the long tail. Off the top of my head I'd have to say MJ, Warner and Rad have been a big difference but I hate singling players out when what I have seen is complete dominance of 1 team over the other.

England has only Bell, Broad and Stokes that could say they have put in and Bell has been way short of what he would have hoped for. 1 ton from Stokes in 6 innings is a disaster from their PoV. I was hoping for some good cricket with an Aussie win but this has been a deadset 90s flashback. The England so poor you feel sorry for them.

 

[Hooksey]

MJ has been a factor but youre over stating it and your going on and on about it. The number of 100s shows how big the gulf in batting has been. In England we were all worried about the runs we got from no 6 but we could be carrying anyone there atm given how much the top 5 and Rad have done. The batting then feeds into the fielding and the bowling. When you have low totals to bowl at everyone is under pressure England have felt that but Australia havent at home. We did in England though.

MJ has been very good but he has been one cog in a very good attack. Lyon, Rhyno and Siddle have all taken big wickets. They have all taken important top order wickets. So MJ has been fresh to fire out the long tail. Off the top of my head I'd have to say MJ, Warner and Rad have been a big difference but I hate singling players out when what I have seen is complete dominance of 1 team over the other.

England has only Bell, Broad and Stokes that could say they have put in and Bell has been way short of what he would have hoped for. 1 ton from Stokes in 6 innings is a disaster from their PoV. I was hoping for some good cricket with an Aussie win but this has been a deadset 90s flashback. The England so poor you feel sorry for them.

Johnson has kick started things for Australia starting day one in Brisbane. That's my point, and as I've stated a number of time previously "Johnson has been the single biggest difference between the teams".

I've never said Johnson was the only difference between the teams >

Agree with most of what you've said there. Australia have outplayed England in every facet of the game so far, but Johnson has been the single biggest difference between the teams. He's definitely enjoyed a huge psychological advantage over the English batsmen. But I would say it is more a fear of failure he holds over them than a fear of physical injury.

People seem to be forgetting Johnson kick started Australia's form turnaround:

Australia was 6 for 132 day one of the series and in dire straights. Johnson with the bat was then pivotal in the Australian fightback making 64 and adding 114 with Haddin. Even so, 295 didn't look many until Johnson tore into England taking 4-61 and helping dismiss them for 136.

The 2nd innings was a continuation of the Johnson show with 39 not out and 5 for 42, and he's carried on his merry way since.