Ryan Harris' drunken tweets

[Magrat Garlick]

To the contrary, I feel it's the rape charities being insensitive to his pain, calling for apologies when he's in dire need of solicitude.

wat about teh menz level: 11

 

[Spark]

There is no such thing. I'm not denying that historically we do and did live in a patriarchal society. However saying we are part of a rape culture is ignoring all the other parts of our society (I can just as well claim that we are part of a war culture and that men are greatly affected by it.); some bad, some good.

Rape is gender blind. Neither does it have the greatest affect, nor the most common, on either gender - that our society produces.

Murder has a bigger impact on actual people.

oh wow. you genuinely have no idea what you're talking about here. literally all this post is straight-up wrong or wilfully missing the point and it's kinda stunning.

stop before you say something horrendous, i think.

 

[Langeveldt]

Poor stuff from Swann.. He is also wrong.. This ashes has been worse than arse rape

 

[Garson007]

oh wow. you genuinely have no idea what you're talking about here. literally all this post is straight-up wrong or wilfully missing the point and it's kinda stunning.

stop before you say something horrendous, i think.

I'm sorry - but murder affects individuals, families, communities and society, as a whole, a lot more than rape does.

Using the word rape as an expression no more condones, tries to offend, nor desensitises rape than a expression including murder does for murder.

The media literally (I know the word literal is not the correct use of the word here - just like rape isn't to exemplify anything other than actual rape - but words be words and we're not all grammaticians) has no leg to stand on here.

 

[Tangles]

It's just people being PC. That terminology is common with online gaming for example. Win or lose really badly and that phrase will be used.

It's just words and less offensive than Watner actually punching someone IMO.

 

[Langeveldt]

Lets just say it varies depending on who you are with and where you are.. Twitter is a global forum where he will doubtless have thousands of fans from all over the place and many different backgrounds following him.. He isn't having a beer with his mates, so he shouldn't be using the same language.

I use examples, **** is fine in some places and not in others, ****** is perfectly acceptable if you are a black rapper, but not in somewhere like London or Johannesburg, and neither are acceptable on cricketweb

 

[Spark]

I'm sorry - but murder affects individuals, families, communities and society, as a whole, a lot more than rape does.

Using the word rape as an expression no more condones, tries to offend, nor desensitises rape than a expression including murder does for murder.

The media literally (I know the word literal is not the correct use of the word here - just like rape isn't to exemplify anything other than actual rape - but words be words and we're not all grammaticians) has no leg to stand on here.

given that you have not shown the slightest understanding of rape in society, how it disproportionately affects women, the serious problem of underreporting due to victim-blaming etc etc, and the verified normalisation effect that rape jokes have ([1], [2]), i have trouble taking your word on anything on the matter.

That terminology is common with online gaming for example.

What sort of argument is this? All sorts of exceptionally racist, ***ist and offensive language is thrown around by immature exclusively male online gaming communities, yes. Does that make it overly PC to find calling black people the n-word objectionable, given that it's the sort of thing that happens all the time in these communities?

Rape jokes are, quite simply, deeply misogynistic. Don't ****ing make them in the context of a cricket match.

 

[Spark]

Rape jokes are, quite simply, deeply misogynistic. Don't ****ing make them in the context of a cricket match.

And to be absolutely clear, making them on CW is a potentially infractable offence (in fact, we infracted someone for this just this week). If that sits badly with you you're free to find another forum to post on.

 

[Tangles]

The bigger issue here is the bad judgement of using the phrase in social media. If he was a regular joe down the pub saying it after some weekend cricket his mates would agree and move on. Warner got in trouble for his tweets and I'm sure Swann will.

If you want to crucify him for his choice of words then your free to do so. But I'm not going to.

 

[Garson007]

how it disproportionately affects women,

From the same text, men are disproportionately more likely to get assaulted. Is "we got assaulted by that test" also a bad expression now? Or are statistics not a valid argument as to whether a word should be used or not?

the serious problem of underreporting due to victim-blaming

Which has got absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I can look up articles pertaining to fake claims of rape and it wouldn't have any context either.

and the verified normalisation effect that rape jokes have [1]

It specifically talks about misogynistic jokes, not the usage of the word rape. I see you struggle to divorce the two.

The same would go for the murder analogy I used in a previous post. Using the word to describe an event does not mean you condone violence. It actually has nothing at all to do with violence.

Rape jokes are, quite simply, deeply misogynistic.

You're completely missing the context. Saying "We got raped" has got nothing to do with misogynism and isn't really a joke either. It's just an expression.

Don't ****ing make them in the context of a cricket match.

The argument just doesn't follow; like most PC things.

 

[Langeveldt]

I just don't get twitter.. Society has functioned for millenia before it.. Now it is just an outlet for people to jeopardize their careers..

As for false rape accusations, especially to get back at an ex, I went to a university where that was a hobby among women.. Something that although isn't relevant to today's argument, manages to pass through almost unnoticed in most debates

 

[theegyptian]

Swann is clearly out of line. He should know better.

Realistically whilst people think they can control what they say on social networks there are going to be times when emotion takes over. You would think it was better for a sportsman's brand if there was no chance of this kind of error but I guess they always think they know best and won't slip up - and having a million followers on twitter is presumably going to boost sponsorships and promote your name - as long as you stay away from anything controversial and even then it's rarely a problem.

I don't like the use of the term but unfortunately it is used fairly commonly these days. You only need to search on this forum and there are plenty of instances of 'raped' being used as an adjective in cricketing terms. 'So and so getting raped' - but then again murdered is used even more regularly.

 

[uvelocity]

garson007, what do you hope to achieve? you want it to be acceptable to use that terminology in conversation, or here on cw? I'm sure you could find a more worthy cause. Or is your intent to dissuade users from indulging in descriptors involving murder (which is approaching zero in it's commonality here in particular)?

 

[GIMH]

The way I see it is that wherever you stand on it (and I personally avoid it as anything other than the literal definition) taking the word away harms nobody, so why not just respect that?

As uve says, what's actually gained for fighting for it as an acceptable term?

 

[Garson007]

garson007, what do you hope to achieve?

Nothing. All I want is for people, and the world, to be consistent; nothing grates me more than than an unequal distribution of justice - and the disproportionate reaction to something that doesn't warrant it.

you want it to be acceptable to use that terminology in conversation, or here on cw?

I don't ever use the term. Not because I find it offensive or anything, but because it doesn't really form part of my vocabulary in that capacity.

I'm sure you could find a more worthy cause.

I do and I have. I'm quite the libertarian socialist.

Or is your intent to dissuade users from indulging in descriptors involving murder (which is approaching zero in it's commonality here in particular)?

Not at all. I'm just pointing out how subjectively silly the distinction is.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I watched Sleepers last night. Men get raped too. Enough of this emasculation. We are what we are.

 

[uvelocity]

well garson, not sure you have anything better to do, but i do.

 

[Hooksey]

Good on Swann to apologize.

I agree good on Swann for apologizing. The guy is no fool and he could see it made little sense not to apologize. It was a dumb thing to say and he was smart enough to admit it.

 

[MW1304]

Not defending what Swann said but from what I've read this was a message on his brother's facebook page, not twitter.

 

[91Jmay]

The only caveat I can see for Swann is that he was talking to his brother on facebook, it wasn't a rape joke tweet. Apology was necessary and should close matter.
But some of the comments in this thread are embarrassing, why do you want to use the word rape so much when you lose a cricket match Garson007 ? Where does your passion about it stem from? Also its statistically proven that false rape accusation is no more likely than any other crime.