An Extinct Breed ?: Great spin bowling allrounders

[SpofforthLohman]

Once upon a time there were great spin bowlers who were also great batsmen, why did this breed of test cricketer seemingly die out ?. The last of the breed seems to have been none other than Richie Benaud and to a lesser extent Bob Simpson. Most of the great spin bowling allrounder were leg spinners who were just as good as batsmen. Among the leg spin allrounder greats there was Warwick Armstrong, Monty Noble, Benaud and the awesome Aubrey Faulkner from South Africa. Noble, Armstrong and Faulkner were the type of players that gave a team incredible depth as there was usually a seamer allrounder in the same teams, Jack Gregory comes to mind. Of the off spin allrounder variety the two that come to mind as the greatest ever are George Giffen and the incredible enigma of Wilfred Rhodes who is recognised as a phenomenal spin bowler. Rhodes didn't start off as an allrounder, he developed into one, at first he was regarded as a batting bunny who played at number 11, yet he worked his way all the way up through the line up to eventually become a very successful opening batsman supporting the greatest opener ever Jack Hobbs.
........... Who else can you name that fits into this category ??? (they have to be very good in both departments, Simpson was just an ok leg spinner) and why is this type of player seemingly extinct for the last 50 years ?. I do not count Warne as an allrounder, he never made a test century, even though he was handy with the bat.
........................ To me these guys are the most enigmatic of cricketers, just how is it possible for a player like Giffen and Faulkner to have ever existed, those two the type of players who could score a triple or double century and take 12... 14... wickets all in one match. Enigmas all,

 

[benchmark00]

Steve Smith board.

 

[Days of Grace]

Vettori, ffs.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

My bad guys... of course I forgot to mention Grace himself, he took lots and lots of wickets from bowling ultra slow gentle spin, but he was also ultra accurate he just gave you nothing. I wouldn't put him in the same class as Noble, Rhodes, Faulkner, Armstrong and Giffen though, they still rank as all time greats for their bowling alone. I know I will ruffle some feathers saying that.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

Steve Smith board.

I would argue that Smith has yet to get to that exalted status. I hope he does improve and get to that point.

 

[Athlai]

Shakib will go down as one of the best.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There's also this one guy who's picked up 100 wickets at 28, in fewer tests than anyone for the last half century and averages 40+ with the bat with two centuries.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

Vettori, ffs.

Yes mate you are right, Vettori has to be the closest to those guys in our time and I regret that I overlooked him. Vettori isn't a batsman of the Armstrong, Giffen, Faulkner or Noble and it would be stretching it to suggest he is. But he is special no doubt about it. very good call mate.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

There's also this one guy who's picked up 100 wickets at 28, in fewer tests than anyone for the last half century and averages 40+ with the bat with two centuries.

LOL, please don't make me go through hours of stats mate, just say who it is please. That is what I made the thread for, that and the fact that this is the rarest of all breeds in cricket.

 

[the big bambino]

We haven't had a spin bowling AR since Peter Sleep and Mo Matthews. Or a good one since Richie Benaud.

 

[the big bambino]

Hang on. Funky Miller was allright.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

Shakib will go down as one of the best.

I am not very aware of who that is, excuse my ignorance, I only watch free television and refuse to pay to watch anything so I just get to see who is playing Australia.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

Hang on. Funky Miller was allright.

Yes mate he was, and he sure was funky, but this thread isn't really about those who just did ok, its about the more freakish end of the spectrum like the incredible Giffen who Grace thought was the best Aussie he ever saw. Giffen could smash you all over the park for a fast double century then bowl you out twice in the blink of an eye, of course those were special occasions, Giffen didn't do that all the time, check his first class stats to get an idea of how he compares to the modern era of Tests all over the place, in his time they played far more first class cricket and test series maybe three in the space of a four year period. His Test record is great too but the first class feats will give you a idea. Faulkner was like Giffen only difference was that he was a very deadly leggie as oppsed to very deadly offie.
.................... Miller sure was funky though, very cool dude,

 

[Himannv]

I am not very aware of who that is, excuse my ignorance, I only watch free television and refuse to pay to watch anything so I just get to see who is playing Australia.

He's referring to Shakib Al Hasan.

 

[SpofforthLohman]

He's referring to Shakib Al Hasan.

Thanks just been checking up on him and his returns are decent so far. I hope he goes on to greater things, so too for Bangladesh

 

[OverratedSanity]

LOL, please don't make me go through hours of stats mate, just say who it is please. That is what I made the thread for, that and the fact that this is the rarest of all breeds in cricket.

Ravichandran Ashwin.
It's very very early days, but he looks excellent so far

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/player/26421.html

 

[kyear2]

There's also this one guy who's picked up 100 wickets at 28, in fewer tests than anyone for the last half century and averages 40+ with the bat with two centuries.

Lets just see how he does in this tour first and some more series outside of India (and not vs us) first before we appoint him anything quite yet.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lets just see how he does in this tour first and some more series outside of India (and not vs us) first before we appoint him anything quite yet.

Sure... Just throwing a positive prospect's name out there because the OP was talking about spin bowling all rounder being an extinct breed. I think he'll do decently with the bat overseas... Did do well in Australia actually. And at home he's been a monster so far.

 

[kyear2]

On spinning decks that favor him and that offers little support to opposing quicks.

 

[OverratedSanity]

On spinning decks that favor him and that offers little support to opposing quicks.

Look, if he ends up as a Kumble type spinner who generally needs conditions in his favour to take wickets consistently ( which he'll get at home) and score a few useful rums down the order with the odd big innings, then he will rightly be considered a great all rounder. He doesn't need to bat AND bowl consistently everywhere against everyone. No one has ever done that