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*Official* First Test at The Gabba

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
Only just got around to watching the 2nd half of our dismissal-orgy. Some comments -


Cook - a predictable fiddle to Harris. Exactly what we didn't want to happen.

Carberry - just undone really. Not much you can say. A good innings

Trott - looks like he's ****-scared of Johnson, and with good reason.

KP - a bit unlucky tbf. Not a terrible dismissal. He'll be back

Bell and Prior - FFS!



This isn't the end - but it's a ****-ugly chapter for us.
 

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
Yeah, that's what I just watched on Cricinfo.

Those Bell and Prior dismissals look truly dreadful one-after-the-other.

Edit: to be fair, the Prior one showed a bit of rip
 
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fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'll be interested to see what Simon Hughes writes tomorrow - today's effort was
That is the trouble with these Australians. They are trapped in a debilitating, self-perpetuating losing streak.
Which is doubtless why they call him the "Analyst" - in future I suspect only the first two syllables will be retained
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Well done Australia, looks a certain 1-0 to you but as we all know England are crap in first tests on tour so it is all about how they react from this. Gooch needs shooting though as he is in charge of the batting and this happens too often.
Interesting comment on Gooch. A man who actually underachieved with the bat for most of his test career and whose captaincy saw some of the most horribly inept batting displays ever seen, especially in the 1990/91 ashes. There really hasn't been much evidence that he's been able to help other guys reach their potential, so you do wonder what his influence has been. Flower would probably do a better job, if he wasn't busy running the whole show.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Interesting comment on Gooch. A man who actually underachieved with the bat for most of his test career and whose captaincy saw some of the most horribly inept batting displays ever seen, especially in the 1990/91 ashes. There really hasn't been much evidence that he's been able to help other guys reach their potential, so you do wonder what his influence has been. Flower would probably do a better job, if he wasn't busy running the whole show.
How much work does Thorpe do with the batsmen? I've heard him credited with the way the batting has improved in OD cricket over the last 18 months or so a couple of times, but I don't actually know what his official role is there and there were mixed reviews about his time as a coach in NSW.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Interesting comment on Gooch. A man who actually underachieved with the bat for most of his test career and whose captaincy saw some of the most horribly inept batting displays ever seen, especially in the 1990/91 ashes. There really hasn't been much evidence that he's been able to help other guys reach their potential, so you do wonder what his influence has been. Flower would probably do a better job, if he wasn't busy running the whole show.
Can't agree with this at all.

Between 2003 and roughly 2008 the big criticism of England's batsmen was their lack of really big hundreds. Cook's probably the best example, for ages his Test high score was 120, and you can still see that legacy in Cook's Lord's record, IIRC he has 3 tons but a high score of just 106. Gooch definitely fixed this in his initial 2-3 years.

In fact, just having a gander on statsguru, only 5 double hundreds were scored by English batsmen between 2000 and 2009, while between 2010 and 2011, 7 were scored.

The big issue with England is one of general decline amongst the batting. Only Cook (42) and KP (40) average more than 40 since the end of the home series against India.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Well I was absolutely stunned watching this second day's play though I'm entirely sure I should have been. Going into the day I was confident we could roll them for under 300 then set about building a solid platform and over the course of the next couple of days get ourselves into a position where we may be required to bat only the once. This however has turned out to be utterly wishful thinking. Now I'm not going to jump and down and call for the heads of all the batsmen and everyone associated with the batting unit, but there were several dismissals that you could maybe have scripted weeks ago. Harris pitching it up and going across Cook who nibbles and nicks off - predictable. Jon Trott, despite undoubtedly putting in heaps of wicket against the short ball and devising a strategy to cope, still looked all at sea and while being strangled down the legside can at times be considered unfortunate, it has happened far too frequently now for it not be a real technical issue.

While I don't think the Aussies were necessarily planning on getting KP like they did, they have tried this route in the past with a couple of catchers in that area, he does flick in the air through his favoured area at times. The bowling and captaincy to Carberry was excellent both in the planning and execution. Bell, Prior and Swann all fell to cheap dismissals, Swann maybe done by a bit of pace while Bell and Prior's gifts were just sloppy, and Root was caught up in the moment and played a shot he will lambast himself for for some time.

To blame the batsmen for their dismissals though will not do sufficient justice to the excellent and aggressive Aussie attack. Mitchell Johnson the matchwinner turned up today and showed he doesn't need the ball to be curving in excessively to be a real handful. He bowled with plenty of pace and made England panic and play shots they wouldn't dream of playing to someone that might be bowling around 85mph. Siddle supported well and was always at the batsmen without giving them any chance to get the board ticking and we all know what a top bowler Harris is. Even Lyon played his role effectively and got some big wickets on just the second day at the Gabba.

With Warner and Rogers negotiating what should have been a tricky passage of play safely England are in real trouble in this Test. We have saved a Test before at the Gabba when it has looked unlikely, it'll need another big effort to keep the score at 0-0 after this one.
 

Watson33

U19 12th Man
Well all I can say is it will take an absolute belter of a performance with the bat second time round to save us in this test. If Nathan Lyon can trouble batsmen in the first innings then with the way these cracks are opening up he could be unplayable on day 4/5 (something i'd never thought i'd say about Nathan Lyon). Fair play to MJ, very aggressive and at the throat for a lot of his spell. Yes, he tends to spray it but anyone with the ability to send a 150kmph bouncer down at someones throat will always keep them unsettled. Trott needs to work out a way to deal with it, because MJ has had him in his back pocket since the ODI's in England!
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
England deserve to go down hard for making Mitch look like Curtly at Perth, circa 93.

He did bowl some good short stuff but there was some pretty rank batting. Same with Clarke vs Broad when we batted. Maybe this is a good reminder to people that it isn't always about slapping 6s on Indian featherbeds. I know I enjoyed that aspect of it.

Quick and bouncy should be now on order for the other 4 venues. Perth will be fine but Sydney and the 2 drop ins will no doubt have less pace and bounce.

That Trott dismissal is rank from a 3. Allowing the over then wafting on the move like that. A walking wicket against that sort of bowling that didn't even have the match sense to play for lunch. Poms should be massively worried about him.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
To blame the batsmen for their dismissals though will not do sufficient justice to the excellent and aggressive Aussie attack. Mitchell Johnson the matchwinner turned up today and showed he doesn't need the ball to be curving in excessively to be a real handful. He bowled with plenty of pace and made England panic and play shots they wouldn't dream of playing to someone that might be bowling around 85mph. Siddle supported well and was always at the batsmen without giving them any chance to get the board ticking and we all know what a top bowler Harris is. Even Lyon played his role effectively and got some big wickets on just the second day at the Gabba.
Sorry there's no-one but there is nobody but the batsmen to blame/credit. That was a procession of just ****ing pathetic dismissals. One or two in an innings would have been bad enough, but no not these ****ers a hatful in the space of a few overs. Lyon's wickets were complete gifts, the sort of gimmes you might see in a ODI (when trying to milk the bowling) but shouldn't happen in Test cricket. England managed to waft and poke at completely innocent, innocuous deliveries. I mean Swann actually did well to get out to his delivery, short but not short enough, leg-side rubbish. The only way he could get out to it was with the pathetic prod he conjured up.
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
Your top 6 is to blame just like ours was. Haddin and MJ hitting 90 and 60 from 7/8 is the difference.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Sorry there's no-one but there is nobody but the batsmen to blame/credit. That was a procession of just ****ing pathetic dismissals. One or two in an innings would have been bad enough, but no not these ****ers a hatful in the space of a few overs. Lyon's wickets were complete gifts, the sort of gimmes you might see in a ODI (when trying to milk the bowling) but shouldn't happen in Test cricket. England managed to waft and poke at completely innocent, innocuous deliveries. I mean Swann actually did well to get out to his delivery, short but not short enough, leg-side rubbish. The only way he could get out to it was with the pathetic prod he conjured up.
Think you're overlooking the effect of a 90+mph bowler, it makes batsmen do things that they would never consider doing when they're thinking straight. Especially when it's aggressive and accurate. I'm not condoning some of the shots, they were loose. Yes Lyon got a couple of gimmies, they were sloppy glances from both Bell and Prior, Swann was just done for pace which can happen to a bowler.
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
It was 1 guy bowling short at 90. It wasn't Holding, Marshall, Garner and Roberts headhunting on a minefield. Some good short stuff that was poorly played. Really makes me wonder if too many modern bats get used to safe, sterile ODI and 2020.
 

Woodster

International Captain
It was 1 guy bowling short at 90. It wasn't Holding, Marshall, Garner and Roberts headhunting on a minefield. Some good short stuff that was poorly played. Really makes me wonder if too many modern bats get used to safe, sterile ODI and 2020.
Yes but that one guy accounted for half our top six, and it's also the unsettling effect that can have on the rest of the team. To be fair, he wasn't backed up by donkeys, Harris put in a couple of useful bursts too. You also don't have to be bowl over 90mph to be aggressive and unsettle the opposition. It was far from a minefield, I've already said I'm not excusing the batsmen from any mistakes.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Can't agree with this at all.

Between 2003 and roughly 2008 the big criticism of England's batsmen was their lack of really big hundreds. Cook's probably the best example, for ages his Test high score was 120, and you can still see that legacy in Cook's Lord's record, IIRC he has 3 tons but a high score of just 106. Gooch definitely fixed this in his initial 2-3 years.

In fact, just having a gander on statsguru, only 5 double hundreds were scored by English batsmen between 2000 and 2009, while between 2010 and 2011, 7 were scored.

The big issue with England is one of general decline amongst the batting. Only Cook (42) and KP (40) average more than 40 since the end of the home series against India.
tbh I couldn't remember when Gooch got involved. And also tbh I'm not really certain that I want to blame him for our batsmen's uselessness. But his leadership definitely suffered from diminishing returns in the early 1990's, so maybe there's just something about him that is counter-productive after a while. But obvs is mainly the fault of the batsmen themselves, who just don't seem top have the appetite to maintain what they were doing in 2010/11 or kick on and improve.

The decline in the batting really is hard to stomach though. To have only 2 guys averaging 40 or a tad higher nowadays is pretty dire. Beyond what we're seeing at present, the lack of convincing talent coming through makes me wonder wtf we'll be seeing in a couple of years or so when KP and Trott have called it a day. Not that Trott is offering a lot anyway. Throw in the lack of viable quicks, and I think we're heading for some very lean times.
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
Yes but that one guy accounted for half our top six, and it's also the unsettling effect that can have on the rest of the team. To be fair, he wasn't backed up by donkeys, Harris put in a couple of useful bursts too. You also don't have to be bowl over 90mph to be aggressive and unsettle the opposition. It was far from a minefield, I've already said I'm not excusing the batsmen from any mistakes.
Trott is the most worrying from an England pov. Technique badly exposed and there's no way he can control leg side flicks walking like that.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
If I had followed English domestic cricket and had any idea of who was waiting in the wings as a viable alternative I'd punt Trott now.
 

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