**Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

[Prince EWS]

What do Australians even think of Laughlin? I'm going to assume he's at least not terrible/bowling equivalent of Borgas, though bowling to Wellington can be quite flattering sometimes.

He kind of is the bowling equivalent of Borgas in a way; he's a useless First Class cricketer so he doesn't manage to get a state contract, but he's really got being a T20 hack down into a fine art, so he's a big ticket item in the Big Bash and makes the odd appearance in Tasmania's OD side on the strength of the his death bowling. He's probably a level above Borgas really in that he's not just a passable T20 player but in fact really quite good, and he even managed to play a couple of ODIs (despite it being an awful selection) and had a run in the T20I side pretty recently.

Definitely the most specialist T20 cricketer in Australia though. The gulf between his skills in that format and everything else is absolutely massive.

 

[Flem274*]

Lol Wellington.

Finally looked him up just to see how bad his FC record is...yeah. Still, if he's swinging the ball around at the death and has a track record of being good at this format then he's a decent buy. ND usually do buy smart.

 

[Prince EWS]

Lol Wellington.

Finally looked him up just to see how bad his FC record is...yeah. Still, if he's swinging the ball around at the death and has a track record of being good at this format then he's a decent buy. ND usually do buy smart.

Laughlin really annoys me at times and I love seeing him fail, but I'm not going to lie - it was an excellent buy. He's not occupied at this part of the season because he has absolutely no chance of being called up to Shield cricket and his skills in this format of cricket are excellent. He played T20I cricket this year and while I didn't agree with that selection and he was ineffective, it was quite justifiable at the time and had a lot of backing even on this forum.

 

[Binkley]

The shot he played to end his test career was truly awful. It was one of those shots which stick in the mind and selectors like to make an example of players who do that. I can't remember what I thought at the time but sending a "you may suck but don't go wasting your knocks like that" message to every batsman in the country is a fair move.

In the WI thread you put up some Hesson tick-boxes. I reckon you missed a couple. Hesson definitely seems to have a liking for hard-nosed players who don't necessarily have skill or talent but who will look angry when they get out or get hit for four (Ellis, N McCullum). He also definitely doesn't like players who look disappointed when they get out, or who will back away from fast bowling, or who drink wine rather than beer. Lance Dry is probably sitting by the phone, waiting for a call from the selectors as I type.

 

[Bahnz]

Jeets had many chances. If you're in last chance saloon and you run away to square leg, I have no sympathy. Ingram was dropped after being run out twice because the selectors didn't rate him and couldn't wait for him to fail. Nethula got the yips on debut and was given the flick as fast as possible.

When you compare their axings to the extended (and in Jeets case multiple) opportunities the above two were provided, and how they treated their final chances, they deserved what they got.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Jeets had many chances. The early stages of his international career were characterised by him being selected only for dead, flat tracks or occasionally for tours of the sub-continent. He never had an extended run. Prior to 2012 I think his longest unbroken stint in the test team was 2 matches. Given that he sometimes comfortably outbowled Vettori in these occasional appearances (especially in his earlier years) but was never really considered for a more regular role, it's hard to call them true chances in the national side. Last year was his first real opportunity to get out of Vettori's shadow and establish his place.

And I still really can't agree that a bowler should ever be dropped for batting like a muppet, even in the modern age - even if the match was riding on it (which in this case it most definitely was not). The axing of a bowler has to be for his bowling efforts - which in Jeet's case were admittedly poor in SA and even worse against the England XI.

 

[hendrix]

Jeets did his job far better than Bracewell and Wagner had up to that point. I'm comfortable with dropping a bowler that hasn't performed, but there has to be a bit of consistency.

 

[hendrix]

And ftr McCullum should have been out the door as soon as he spooned that shot to the outfielder in the first test in Sri Lanka right before the close of play. Some plays are unforgivable. Some marriages fail over a long period of time before the pair just give up, but sometimes someone does the dirty and it's an immediate walk out.

Remember that it was after this test that Hesson decided to dump Taylor for McCullum...

 

[Mike5181]

Some of the most ineffective bowling I've ever seen came from Patel against Zimbabwe a while back. Sodhi's noticeably more talented, and Vettori's back so I see no reason why he'd get a look in again.

Ideally New Zealand cricket should be moving towards this sort of squad in the next series or two:

1. Hamish Rutherford/Peter Fulton
2. Brendon McCullum
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Jesse Ryder
6. Corey Anderson
7. BJ Watling+
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Tim Southee
10. Neil Wagner
11. Trent Boult

12-15:
Dean Brownlie
Ish Sodhi
Jeet Raval
Mark Gillespie

Maybe there's some improbable selections there, especially Baz opening again. But I see that as our strongest squad.

 

[hendrix]

Maybe there's some improbable selections there, especially Baz opening again. But I see that as our strongest squad.

If the selectors don't force McCullum to go back to opening, I wouldn't mind him batting at 6 at the expense of Corey Anderson. There's plenty of bowling there with Ryder and Williamson.

would be going:
Fulton
Rutherford/Raval
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
McCullum
Watling
Vettori
Southee
Boult
Wagner/Gillespie/Milne/whichever of the myriad of domestic pace options forces their way in.

 

[Bahnz]

Some of the most ineffective bowling I've ever seen came from Patel against Zimbabwe a while back. Sodhi's noticeably more talented, and Vettori's back so I see no reason why he'd get a look in again.

You're probably right, but my issue is more to do with Jeet's being willfully ignored for the 2nd test v England at Headingly and for the tour of Bangladesh. In both cases he really should've been selected. Anyway it's all in the past now.

 

[Bahnz]

Heh, Ryder comes out to bat and immediately Tastle is taken off. Would've thought it would've been worth keeping him on for a few overs at least in the hope that he'd inspire a classic Jesse cbf moment.

 

[straw man]

1. Hamish Rutherford/Peter Fulton
2. Brendon McCullum
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Jesse Ryder
6. Corey Anderson
7. BJ Watling+
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Tim Southee
10. Neil Wagner
11. Trent Boult

That's a dream side that I would love to see on the park. Plenty of bowling options to support Southee and Boult, with three of the top 6 able to bowl without compromising on batting quality. Our best opener back opening. Batting gains a tremendous amount from having Vettori at eight, without relying on Vettori to be either a serious workhorse with the ball or a serious wicket-taker. Wagner retains third-seamer role at the moment but aforementioned bowling options means you could bring in someone new and untested like Milne if it's justified. No one ever gets injured because this is fantasy land. Vettori plays another three years without any drop in performance.

Some weakness or uncertainty over opener #1 and the batting of Ryder and Anderson; we'd have to just accept the former issue but if necessary you could drop the lesser performing batsman of Ryder or Anderson for a specialist batsman without affecting the balance of the side.

We would be a competitive international side with that team. Nice dream.

 

[hendrix]

Gee looking at Wells' domestic record it's hard to see why Franklin was persisted with for so long when this guy's been around since 2007.

 

[Flem274*]

Wells dined out on his first season for a bit.

 

[straw man]

Gee looking at Wells' domestic record it's hard to see why Franklin was persisted with for so long when this guy's been around since 2007.

Well John Wright thought there was something there to work with. Even so, can also see why Wells has never quite done enough to earn a test for NZ - mostly batted at 7 or 8 for Otago rather than top 6, and still didn't bully the bowlers as much as your average NZ domestic wicketkeeper or other lower order opportunist (edit: like Franklin). Bowling was as third or fourth seamer and partnership breaker, and seemingly quite inconsistent. I like that he's now batting in the top 6, which started happening last season iirc. And I do like his bowling attributes with height and bounce and away-movement, and he appears to be getting more consistent results now.

Still, no complaints that Anderson and Neesham are seen as better NZ prospects. Wells is 29 after all.

 

[hendrix]

I wasn't following domestic cricket back then so for me the perception was that there were simply no decent all rounders on the scene and that's why we were trying to turn Franklin into a semi-respectable one. It seems as if that wasn't the case. Even if he was batting 7-8 that's still where Franklin should've been, if we're honest.

Agree that Neesh and Anderson are better prospects.

 

[hendrix]

Bennett taking some tap. Will be interested to see if they're edges to third man or he's still relatively wayward as a bowler.

 

[straw man]

Even if he was batting 7-8 that's still where Franklin should've been, if we're honest.

Definitely, though Franklin was batting 5 or 6 for Wellington. So if we apply the -2 rule then Franklin should've been batting 7 or 8 for NZ... and Wells at the time would have been suited to 9 or 10.

In fact the more I think about this -2 rule the more I like it. Explains why NZ can't find any decent openers, for example

 

[hendrix]

50 for Jess.

Quadruple it and you'll get to play the Windies...

 

[Binkley]

Heh, Ryder comes out to bat and immediately Tastle is taken off. Would've thought it would've been worth keeping him on for a few overs at least in the hope that he'd inspire a classic Jesse cbf moment.

Jesse's waiting for Shanan Stewart to come on for a bowl, to maximise the cbf-ness.