What is Sachin's 99.94?

[GuyFromLancs]

Im confused by this. If all the if, buts and maybes that you list happen then I fail to see any reason why he wouldnt be.

Because he's not as good at cricket.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Im confused by this. If all the if, buts and maybes that you list happen then I fail to see any reason why he wouldnt be.

One is very good the other is great. Not a lot to get your head round.

So if Jimmy Anderson manages to play till he is 35/36 and gets 500+ wickets does that make him better than Trueman, Ambrose, Marshall and Hadlee?

 

[Zinzan]

The **** has been the most significant cricketer for the last 15 years or so

If by significant you refer purely to his profile ( he does come from a nation of 1.2 billion people besotted by the game) & longevity, (which is simply amazing) that's true. However if you're referring to performances on the cricket field, the last 15 years has almost certainly belonged to Jacques Kallis, who scored more runs at a significantly higher average along with the small tally of 264 wickets @ 32. To claim otherwise on cricketing performances is simply buying into the myth IMHO.

 

[Goughy]

The same reason why I will always consider Ricky Ponting a better batsman than Jacques Kallis, despite Kallis ending his career with more hundreds and more runs.

But hold on, isnt all this Tendulkar adulation built around 200 Tests, 100 international hundreds and longevity? Surely it will also apply if Cook does the same. Isnt this long career and volume what separates him from the others who have claims to be his equal or better (Lara, Ponting, Waugh etc.)

 

[Zinzan]

One is very good the other is great. Not a lot to get your head round.

So if Jimmy Anderson manages to play till he is 35/36 and gets 500+ wickets does that make him better than Trueman, Ambrose, Marshall and Hadlee?

Well it would put him up there with them if he got his 500 wickets at 22 as opposed to 30 a la Dale Steyn.

 

[OverratedSanity]

But hold on, isnt all this Tendulkar adulation built around 200 Tests, 100 international hundreds and longevity? Surely it will also apply if Cook does the same. Isnt this long career and volume what separates him from the others who have claims to be his equal or better (Lara, Ponting, Waugh etc.)

Ha, yeah that makes me laugh. People who go on and on and on about Tendulkar's longevity as if it ends the debate between him, Lara and Ponting are going to look stupid when kallis ends up in all probability also playing 20+ years, almost as many (probably more) hundreds and a better average. Nowhere to hide

 

[Riggins]

But hold on, isnt all this Tendulkar adulation built around 200 Tests, 100 international hundreds and longevity? Surely it will also apply if Cook does the same. Isnt this long career and volume what separates him from the others who have claims to be his equal or better (Lara, Ponting, Waugh etc.)

if you never watched either of them bat then sure.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Ha, yeah that makes me laugh. People who go on and on and on about Tendulkar's longevity as if it ends the debate between him, Lara and Ponting are going to look stupid when kallis ends up in all probability also playing 20+ years, almost as many (probably more) hundreds and a better average. Nowhere to hide

There is somewhere to hide. The fact that all those who have seen, with their own eyes, both play know that Tendulkar is the greater batsman.

In fact, stats aside, I consider Dravid to be greater than Kallis.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Ha, yeah that makes me laugh. People who go on and on and on about Tendulkar's longevity as if it ends the debate between him, Lara and Ponting are going to look stupid when kallis ends up in all probability also playing 20+ years, almost as many (probably more) hundreds and a better average. Nowhere to hide

Can't see Kallis getting there. Will need to play for another 3-4 years to get anywhere near it and no guarantee he will keep his form long enough. Was dreadful in UAE recently.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There is somewhere to hide. The fact that all those who have seen, with their own eyes, both play know that Tendulkar is the greater batsman.

In fact, stats aside, I consider Dravid to be greater than Kallis.

Good for you if you choose Sachin over kallis based on just watching them.

My point was that stats-mongers who point to just Tendulkar's stats and his "24 years" and "51 hundreds" as though it's conclusive proof of Tendulkar being greater will be made to look foolish by stats-mongers on the kallis side if he does get close to or break his records, which is possible

 

[Zinzan]

There is somewhere to hide. The fact that all those who have seen, with their own eyes, both play know that Tendulkar is the greater batsman.

Like anyone, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion, but to claim to know others' opinion on such a subjective matter is absurd.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Can't see Kallis getting there. Will need to play for another 3-4 years to get anywhere near it and no guarantee he will keep his form long enough. Was dreadful in UAE recently.

Yeah he was terrible in UAE. But it's premature to be calling it a terminal decline. Even if it is, he could bash sone minnows to get there. There's very much a possibility, albeit a slim one if things go his way

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Good for you if you choose Sachin over kallis based on just watching them.

My point was that stats-mongers who point to just Tendulkar's stats and his "24 years" and "51 hundreds" as though it's conclusive proof of Tendulkar being greater will be made to look foolish by stats-mongers on the kallis side if he does get close to or break his records, which is possible

I factor Tendulkar's accumulation in, sure I do.

But in my mind, his superiority over Kallis comes from their respective peaks. And Tendulkar at his peak was considerably better than Kallis at any time.

Tendulkar averaged 58 between 1990 and 2000, in what was probably the last era of consistently great or very good bowling attacks + batting tracks that actually encouraged a degree of thoughtfulness on behalf of batsmen.

Kallis, is a great player. But I wager that in this era (had they been the same age) he'd have averaged closer to 45.

 

[centurymaker]

But hold on, isnt all this Tendulkar adulation built around 200 Tests, 100 international hundreds and longevity? Surely it will also apply if Cook does the same. Isnt this long career and volume what separates him from the others who have claims to be his equal or better (Lara, Ponting, Waugh etc.)

Since you are having a hard time getting your head around it. Here a complete response-


No it is not. Thats just the icing on the cake.
Even without the 100 tons & 200 tests, he'd still sit alongside Lara and co. For eg, if he had retired way back in the mid 2000s, he still would have been held in very high esteem. Don't forget that the guy has been an ATG since the late 90s more or less. All throughout his career he was seen as a cricketing legeng because he is. Who the hell manages to hold down a spot in the XI at age 16. He was scoring ton after ton in domestic cricket prior to his selection in the national side. Freak.

On the hand, Cook regardless of what he does, he'll never be in the class of a Ponting, etc.. simply because he's not as good. Even if he were to score 50+ tons in tests, he'd still be a level below, unless ofcourse he takes his game to another level. Then maybe.
And I bet you that if Cook were to play till 40, his average would not be more than 45 (currently it's 47)....

Also, you are forgetting that Tendulkar throughly dominated ODIs- a big part of his legacy was borne out of there. I don't see Cook doing that, although he isn't a shabby ODI player any longer.

Is Cook anywhere near as complete a player as Tendulkar -- No.
Is he anywhere near as gifted as Lara and co -- No (besides his high levels of concentration skills)
Has he even been No.1 for any significant length? No.
Is he even the best player in his side-- Arguably No.

Having said that, he's still a very good player who is making the absolute most of his skills.

 

[benchmark00]

But hold on, isnt all this Tendulkar adulation built around 200 Tests, 100 international hundreds and longevity? Surely it will also apply if Cook does the same. Isnt this long career and volume what separates him from the others who have claims to be his equal or better (Lara, Ponting, Waugh etc.)

Um no. Tendulkar is great because he's a ****ing unreal bat. Me rating him so high isn't to do with the fact he's played for 24 years, that's just icing on the cake that he's managed to be so good for that long.

Couldn't give a dogs nut that he's made 100 tons, that's just a product of him playing for so long. The stat itself doesn't make him great.

 

[Zinzan]

Kallis, is a great player. But I wager that in this era (had they been the same age) he'd have averaged closer to 45.

Wild speculation and nothing else. I've often thought of the great post-2000 batsmen, Kallis, with his rock solid technique and calculated stroke play would be the most likely to have succeeded in the really tough batting era of 1975-1985.

 

[The Sean]

if you never watched either of them bat then sure.

There is somewhere to hide. The fact that all those who have seen, with their own eyes, both play know that Tendulkar is the greater batsman.

In fact, stats aside, I consider Dravid to be greater than Kallis.

That misses the point he's making though.

I fully agree with the notion that Tendulkar is a greater batsman than Kallis (or anyone else of the modern era for that matter) so have no issue at all with that, but a lot of the arguments for Tendulkar's status seem to be along the lines of "played longer + scored more = greatest" so if someone else plays for even longer and scores even more then it would seem hypocritical to then say that you can't just judge on career totals.

 

[centurymaker]

Ha, yeah that makes me laugh. People who go on and on and on about Tendulkar's longevity as if it ends the debate between him, Lara and Ponting are going to look stupid when kallis ends up in all probability also playing 20+ years, almost as many (probably more) hundreds and a better average. Nowhere to hide

Kallis has 60 tons. Even Ponting has significantly more.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kallis has 60 tons. Even Ponting has significantly more.

Tests obviously

 

[Jono]

Wild speculation and nothing else. I've often thought of the great post-2000 batsmen, Kallis, with his rock solid technique and calculated stroke play would be the most likely to have succeeded in the really tough batting era of 1975-1985.

Never faced the South African attack, averaged circa 41 vs. Australia and 44 vs. England. Doubt it.