Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Which of these ATG is better?
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Vinay Kumar v Ishant Sharma
- Thread starter Agent Nationaux
- Start date
steds
Hall of Fame Member
Wrong way around, for mine.
JontyPanesar
U19 Vice-Captain
I think it has to go to Ishant tbh. Vinay Kumar is a bowler of lesser potential, so you can't totally blame him for getting smacked, though he has no business bowling anything short or boal. Ishant is just the prodigal son when it comes to his ability. Contrary to the common Indian 'Fast' Bowling narrative, Ishant hasn't lost his pace. He is just found lacking in every other way
tl;dr: It's easier for me to be angry with Ishant than with Vinay
tl;dr: It's easier for me to be angry with Ishant than with Vinay
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I'm unsure whether I agree with the idea that Ishant does or ever did have potential. Most young fast bowlers start with a high average for the first few years because they get too excited looking for wickets and tend to overpitch the ball looking for wickets.
Ishant has been the opposite. He has never been guilty of consistently overpitching the ball. He simply never pitches it up. whereas for plenty of fast bowlers the first few years aren't really an indication of their talent, for Sharma they have been.
The reality is that any tall fast bowler is going to look good on occasion because the bounce is such that good length balls rise up sharply on decent (i.e. Australian and South African) wickets for fast bowlers. That alone may make the batsmen hop around, but as we've known for years, it's not going to get you the wicket of test quality batsmen.
Ishant has been the opposite. He has never been guilty of consistently overpitching the ball. He simply never pitches it up. whereas for plenty of fast bowlers the first few years aren't really an indication of their talent, for Sharma they have been.
The reality is that any tall fast bowler is going to look good on occasion because the bounce is such that good length balls rise up sharply on decent (i.e. Australian and South African) wickets for fast bowlers. That alone may make the batsmen hop around, but as we've known for years, it's not going to get you the wicket of test quality batsmen.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Sure Ishant's talent/potential may have been over-estimated or exaggerated. But there is no way in hell someone with his attributes should be as **** as he is nowadays. In 2008 he was genuinely threatening, even on Indian wickets. His series vs. Aust in India in 2008 was quite good.
To me he's a disgrace because he's genuinely a dumb bowler. Like absolutely stupid.
I mean he's getting worse and worse.
To me he's a disgrace because he's genuinely a dumb bowler. Like absolutely stupid.
I mean he's getting worse and worse.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
he was never going to be a sub 30 average bowler.
Spark
Global Moderator
Steven Finn disagrees.
And in the end the point isn't that Sharma was ever going to be amazing. It's that he had a bit going for him, which Vinay doesn't. Which has resulted in him playing dozens and dozens more matches than he should have.
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Nobody cares what you have to say today Jono, why would anyone have the faintest interest in what you've said in the past???If you dig deep enough in the realms of CW you'll find posts of me demanding Vinay Kumar get a test cap.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Ishant consistently bowled at 140-148 Kph when he debuted. Saying he hasn't lost his pace is just not true.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Steven Finn disagreeing means centuries for the likes of Peter Fulton and Hamish Rutherford, neither of whom should average more than 30 in test cricket.
JontyPanesar
U19 Vice-Captain
Don't be fooled by slow Indian pitches. Look at his pace in the BG trophy in Australia 2011/12. He was well into his decline then, but he was still quick enough 140-146kph. He still gets his pace up in the 140s on fast pitches, his bowling has just always ranged from mediocre to terrible.
Flem274*
123/5
Ishant has height and (had) pace. That's rare for an Indian and those two attributes are always nice to see in an upcoming bowler because anyone with them can be a decent test bowler if they learn to bowl accurately and do something with the ball.
Ishant used to be able to bowl with some form of radar and jag the ball around, but now he can't. He is definitely a potentially good bowler gone wrong imo.
Ishant used to be able to bowl with some form of radar and jag the ball around, but now he can't. He is definitely a potentially good bowler gone wrong imo.
smash84
The Tiger King
The 3 giants of SC ODI bowling VK, Ishant, and Sami
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
I think its a toss up between Sami and Ishant. VK a clear third
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
I think its a toss up between Sami and Ishant. VK a clear third
Spark
Global Moderator
Finn still gets wickets whilst bowling pies though.
OverratedSanity
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I'm actually shocked how Sharmas figures aren't as awful as they should.
Stats don't do him justice
