*Official* Pakistan v South Africa in UAE

[Flem274*]

I haven't seen the Pakistani duo so I'm not qualified to comment, but Southee and Boult aren't complete new ball bullies. The problem is NZ don't have a reliable third seamer or spinner and the pitches in the Sri Lankan, NZ summer and now in Bangladesh exacerbated the issue. South Africa were simply too good for Boult to do it all on his own and in the away series to England Southee/Boult were quality whenever they bowled.

They have done their best work with the new ball though, but considering the batsmen aren't set and the opposition are generally at least two down by the time they're done with their first spells, it's probably no surprise they look amazing when bowling to new batsmen under pressure and then look merely good when bowling to set batsmen who have just feasted on our sorry spin bowling and the like. A tactic you will see employed in the coming season by any side with a brain is to get through Southee and Boult with minimal damage and then wreck the other two shunts.

 

[hendrix]

just ran statsguru.

In the first 20 overs of innings in the last 2 years, south africa's bowlers average 9. yes, that's 9.

England's bowlers average 21, Australia's 23, and NZ's 26. The next closest is West Indies with 34, Sri Lanka with 43, and Pakistan with 46.

These are pace bowlers only, btw.

 

[OverratedSanity]

just ran statsguru.

In the first 20 overs of innings in the last 2 years, south africa's bowlers average 9. yes, that's 9.

England's bowlers average 21, Australia's 23, and NZ's 26. The next closest is West Indies with 34, Sri Lanka with 43, and Pakistan with 46.

These are pace bowlers only, btw.

I know the answer can't be pretty but what're the stats for India?

 

[Maximas]

Holy **** - Sri Lanka averaging less than Pakistan!!! No idea how that happened

 

[hendrix]

I know the answer can't be pretty but what're the stats for India?

46.25

 

[centurymaker]

Hmm nah as long as Starc wasn't opening the bowling then I'd take Patto and Harris over Southee and Boult right now, though with Australia it's always hard to tell who is going to play any given test match. There's no hope for our spin options beyond Vettori miraculously finding a new lease of life and playing on for half a decade but the sooner Milne makes his inevitable transition to test cricket the better, since the bloke has the tools to be in the Hadlee/Bond class (but has HEAPS to prove obvz). Siddle is streets ahead of any other third seamer in the world, and no one really seems to have picked up Finn's ability to rescue their figures with the jammiest 4fers ever seen. (On a personal note, thank God he was dropped for guys I like watching. Bresnan/Tremmers forever, Finn never).

It will be a while or probably never before New Zealand deserves to be mentioned alongside the top three attacks due to Gillespie/Wagner/Bracewell being the incumbents and being a mixture of inconsistent, mediocre or way below par right now, and even when Milne/Henry/Wheeler usurp them we still need a test standard spinner and there is very little on the horizon. I know people are excited by Sodhi but wristies tend to be either amazing or terrible at test level, and there are very few amazing wrist spinners.

In saying all that, centurymaker is posting on crack right now. Such bizarre logic. It's the lateral movement that gets Cook and lateral movement >>>>>>>>>>>> pure pace. Pattinson and Steyn don't bowl that much faster than Boult in their initial spells, because Boult is fresh and the other two are looking for swing and control more than breaking the speed gun.

And even then, centurymaker seems to be implying the other attacks are better purely because they're 5kph faster on average, because we all know Glenn McGrath and Vernon Philander bowl(ed) 140kph all the time.

I was more referring to seam movement than swing movement, so obviously quicker it happens the harder it is to adjust to.

I actually think Boult is pretty impressive, he tends to generate good pace as well. No wonder he had more success against Cook Look, Ishant Sharma of all people was the only guy who troubled Cook, not Zaheer Khan

Philander etc is an exception since his precision (ability to constantly bowl a probing line) more than makes up for the pace.

Well, I just find Pakistani quick bowlers more destructive. Maybe Junaid Khan's performance in the last match is influencing my choice.

 

[hendrix]

just ran statsguru.

In the first 20 overs of innings in the last 2 years, south africa's bowlers average 9. yes, that's 9.

England's bowlers average 21, Australia's 23, and NZ's 26. The next closest is West Indies with 34, Sri Lanka with 43, and Pakistan with 46.

These are pace bowlers only, btw.

The other qualification that it was only bowlers 1 and 2. That largely eliminates Wagner and Bracewell.

over 2 years Australia has used 8 different opening bowlers, whereas for most teams it's around 4 - 3 for SA.

 

[Flem274*]

That doesn't really matter though, all it shows is Australia have needed to use many opening bowlers and they have good depth in that department, and South Africa haven't needed to due to fitness and dat average.

Would be interesting to see unit averages broken down into chunks i.e. bowlers 1 and two, next 1-2 seamers, and spinner 1 (and 2 if played)

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Holy **** - Sri Lanka averaging less than Pakistan!!! No idea how that happened

We have used a lot of different bowlers recently. Guys like Tanveer Ahmad, Rahat Ali, Cheema, etc haven't really helped. And to be honest, Irfan isn't that good a test bowler anyway. At this point in time, the only good bowler we have is Junaid.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Oh and I forgot Gul and Wahab, who are rubbish and should never play Test cricket for Pakistan ever again.

 

[Maximas]

We have used a lot of different bowlers recently. Guys like Tanveer Ahmad, Rahat Ali, Cheema, etc haven't really helped. And to be honest, Irfan isn't that good a test bowler anyway. At this point in time, the only good bowler we have is Junaid.

Probably also doesn't help that Pakistan play a lot in the UAE with those bowlers while SL have guys like Kulesakara who specialize in nipping out new ball wickets on SL decks.

Mind you, Junaid is one more test quality fast bowler than SL have had these last 2 years, although Welegedara and Dilhara are decent when fit and firing

 

[Cabinet96]

There is no way Pakistan having a better new ball attack than New Zealand IMO. They obviously have the better attack overall, but just the new ball bowlers? Nah.

Yeah this. I'd also say they're better than Australia with Starc opening and England with Finn opening, both of which we've seen this year.

 

[Swingpanzee]

Pakistan's bowling attack are way more potent with the old ball when Junaid is able to get ample reverse and their spinners come into play. Irfan is a threat with the new ball but I don't reckon he's lethal.

And to be honest, Irfan isn't that good a test bowler anyway

Really? I haven't seen much of him in either ODIs or Tests, but he bowled pretty well in the recent test.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

He was decent in the last macth but had fitness issues when bowling to RSA in their second innings. And he he was really bad in South Africa. But he has only played 3 matches and all against RSA so let's see how he progresses.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I think Junaid is more lethal with the white ball than the red. It's why he was swinging the new ball more in the ODI's, so that's something he has to work on. In addition he wasn't hitting the right lengths in South Africa (not used to the conditions), whereas in the UAE and Sri Lanka he was pitching the ball up a bit more.

 

[smash84]

Agent, are you kidding? Irfan is pretty good with the ball. In fact in the first innings of the last test match he was the one causing real problems to SA. When on target Irfan is probably the most difficult bowler to face in world cricket. He bowls at 90 mph and the bounce he gets is just ridiculous.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

He has only played 3 test matches. 2 in RSA where he averaged 40 and 1 in UAE (the match just gone) where he averaged 21. So not much to base on. The reason why I said he isn't good is because he was having fitness problems in the match just gone. If he can overcome that, he can be a good new ball bowler.

 

[Woodster]

I agree Smali, whenever I've seen him bowl he just looks so awkward to face. I don't think he's by any means the complete package, for a 31 year-old he is still relatively inexperienced in cricket terms with only 39 first-class games to his name and his FC debut coming as recent as 2009. Fitness has clearly been his issue during his earlier years and his ability to get through the longer formats rightly questioned. It's one thing bowling a sharp and accurate opening spell but it's those third and fourth spells late in the day which he has needed to improve, and the signs seem more optimistic.

I'm guessing he's going to have a pretty short time in international cricket, doesn't look an athlete, already had fitness issues and as mentioned is 31 years old, but when he gets it right he presents a real unique problem to any batsman, bowling quickly with incredibly awkward bounce and he's not just straight up and down either. I genuinely think we have to enjoy Irfan while he's around, I for one love watching him bowl.

 

[hendrix]

The impressive thing about Irfan is that despite being very new to top level cricket he doesn't have any of the length issues that bowlers like Steven Finn, Doug Bracewell, Mitch Starc and even occasionally Stuart Broad has.

That said, with the new ball I'd take Boult over him any day.

 

[hendrix]

Over the past 2 years, NZ's opening bowlers have been far superior to Pakistan's.

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But Pakistan's 3-5 bowlers have been easily the best in the world, and NZ's have been nearly the worst.

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