***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka 2013

[Bahnz]

Yeah, it's hard to escape the feeling that there was more than a touch of arrogance in the selection of this team. Like: these bangerz are rubbish, let's give Ish and Corey a debut in a match where they're guaranteed 4 or 5 cheap wickets without much effort.

 

[hendrix]

I thought Anderson looked like he could take some wickets. Gets a hint of swing at a reasonable pace. His first over was much slower than his second over.

Mominul didn't do anything but put away full tosses, short and wide balls, and half volleys. That's how poorly we bowled to him.

Bracewell on very thin ice.

 

[hendrix]

Some other thoughts:

• Any thoughts that Vettori wouldn't be a valuable component of the attack are now completely dispelled. Martin was terrible. Sodhi still looks 2 years away, despite the fact that he was the second best bowler on display.
• Likewise, the idea that our pace attack is full of bowlers up to the task is incorrect. Bracewell et al may have a lot of potential but we just can't afford to give away that many runs. Southee and Boult are our only proven bowlers.
• Bracewell has been underperforming for over a year now. Currently, Steven Finn is better than him. He needs to be dropped.
• McCullum is coming dangerously close to not being amongst the top 6 batsmen in the country

But this is a very valuable test to be playing for NZ. We need to learn these lessons ahead of the WI so that they can be corrected.

 

[Flem274*]

I agree Vettori is the best spinner we have right now, but judging the pace attack based on A) one session in which B) the only bowler who would definitely make the full strength attack bowled three overs is daft.

And if Bracewell screws up in this series I would pick Milne for the West Indies. I would have picked him for this had timing allowed for it.

Edit 1: Bracewell is a very frustrating bowler because his first two overs showed what he can do, but then he reverted to the bang it in macho crap and got smashed.

Edit 2: If McCullum can't score runs batting in the easiest position there is, even on roads, then afaic he's getting dangerously close to specialist captain material. He was good on flat pitches in the home series against England but he needs to be more than a number six flat track bully if he wants to be taken seriously as a batsman again. It's disappointing because when he first began opening I thought he might have finally begun to stand up and make a position his own.

 

[Mike5181]

Sodhi's markedly inexperienced, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think he's going to learn much at all playing NZ domestic cricket. He's far better off learning in Bangladesh conditions. He shouldn't be starting, but meh.

Dropping Wagner for Bracewell was a mistake, I don't care about the extra variation. I think it's a good argument to have when it's your third or fourth bowler, but the second best bowler in the squad should be an automatic pick. Bracewell's averaged close to 70 with the ball in the last 12 months.

 

[Flem274*]

Sodhi should be restricted to playing for New Zealand A at this stage, but that would be in an ideal world where NZC arranged lots of A cricket.

 

[straw man]

Well that was a pretty depressing couple of hours. New Zealand desperately need to crack this partnership early tomorrow morning or else the draw is pretty much guaranteed.

I think this is very premature - we're still 360 runs ahead and in the subcontinent things can happen very quickly on days 4 and 5. I'm not concerned if days 2 & 3 are slow while teams jostle for position, as I think that's normal for a subcontinent test match too. Today our approach is just to be patient and disciplined, take opportunities and wait for mistakes to pick up 2-3 wickets by the 80-over mark, then we need 2-3 wickets from the second new ball, gradually work through the tail and aim for a 100 run lead. That puts us in a reasonable position to push for a result on day 5. Of course we're reliant on the pitch breaking up and becoming a little uneven in the last four sessions of the match, but if the pitch isn't going to do that then it was never likely to produce a result in the first place.


Yes it's quite possible that Bangladesh will instead frustrate us, bat well to take their own 100 run lead and then put pressure on us to save the match, but right now we are in an above-par position so I think it's too early to bring out the black candles and orchids.

 

[hendrix]

Edit 1: Bracewell is a very frustrating bowler because his first two overs showed what he can do, but then he reverted to the bang it in macho crap and got smashed.

I think we've gone past the point where it's a mindset problem or poor tactics. Bond would've been screaming in his ear for over a year now to pitch it up. I'm fairly certain he just lacks the control necessary for a test standard bowler. That will come after 1-2 years of domestic cricket. We can't afford for him to develop that in tests.

Sodhi's markedly inexperienced, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think he's going to learn much at all playing NZ domestic cricket. He's far better off learning in Bangladesh conditions. He shouldn't be starting, but meh.

Dropping Wagner for Bracewell was a mistake, I don't care about the extra variation. I think it's a good argument to have when it's your third or fourth bowler, but the second best bowler in the squad should be an automatic pick. Bracewell's averaged close to 70 with the ball in the last 12 months.

Yup.

 

[Mike5181]

I quite like this Bangladesh batting line up actually. It looks ten times better than it did a few years ago. They seem to be getting a few talented young players come through lately. It's just a shame about the bowlers.

 

[Immenso]

Fairly harsh summary of Bracewell, was only 4 overs - and did include 'almost' 2 wickets.

 

[hendrix]

Fairly harsh summary of Bracewell, was only 4 overs - and did include 'almost' 2 wickets.

that's true.

We'll see what happens today. Will need to come out firing obviously.

 

[Flem274*]

I think we've gone past the point where it's a mindset problem or poor tactics. Bond would've been screaming in his ear for over a year now to pitch it up. I'm fairly certain he just lacks the control necessary for a test standard bowler. That will come after 1-2 years of domestic cricket. We can't afford for him to develop that in tests.



Yup.

Not neccessarily. I get the feeling Bracewell's bang it in method is a definite plan, since coaching staff have talked about him being the aggressive one iirc.

That and well, you saw all McDermott had to do to improve Siddle...

 

[straw man]

This thread keeps coming back to the topic of our bowling attack. I think realistically in these conditions our wicket-taking was always likely to rest in order upon:

Boult
Williamson
bangladeshi indiscipline
attrition
the new ball

I just don't think any other bowler of ours bar Southee would make any real difference to our attack and I think there's a fair bit of wishful thinking in the idea that Vettori or Wagner would provide any noticeable improvement. They just happen to be missing out on criticism on account of not playing. Criticism based on a bowling effort that is 26 overs old and in its infancy; I mean no Bartin wasn't good but he's only bowled three overs and only the first was terrible.

I will revise this opinion on the bowling attack slightly if Bartin or Sodhi or Bracewell concede a lot of runs (4.5+ per over) and thus actually detract from our attempts at attritional cricket, but other than that I really don't think this problem can be solved with a selector's pen.

 

[hendrix]

Not neccessarily. I get the feeling Bracewell's bang it in method is a definite plan, since coaching staff have talked about him being the aggressive one iirc.

That and well, you saw all McDermott had to do to improve Siddle...

Even if he was working to a back of a length plan he didn't hit that. He bowled wide long hops. He doesn't have the control to either pitch it up or hit a McGrath length. He just doesn't have the control.

 

[Flem274*]

I agree and disagree at the same time while there is no magic bullet, Boult-Bracewell-Anderson-Martin-Sodhi always looked and so far has started in horrific fashion, which is due in no small part to some good batting from Monimul.

Edit @ Hendrix: well yes, but he has shown better control when he pitches the ball up, and to an extent in the past with the back of a length crap. Control isn't universal, and some bowlers find it easier to control what they're doing with different lines and lengths.

 

[hendrix]

I just don't think any other bowler of ours bar Southee would make any real difference to our attack and I think there's a fair bit of wishful thinking in the idea that Vettori or Wagner would provide any noticeable improvement. They just happen to be missing out on criticism on account of not playing. Criticism based on a bowling effort that is 26 overs old and in its infancy; I mean no Bartin wasn't good but he's only bowled three overs and only the first was terrible.

Nah there's no way Vettori would've bowled that many pies. He might not have been penetrative but he would've at least tied up an end.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Not neccessarily. I get the feeling Bracewell's bang it in method is a definite plan, since coaching staff have talked about him being the aggressive one iirc.

That and well, you saw all McDermott had to do to improve Siddle...

I get the feeling with doug that he's not actually bowling short on purpose, his action is just very tense and up-and-down so when he tries to bowl faster or gets into a more aggressive mindset it automatically ends up being dragged down even when he's actually trying to bowl full. It's pretty common for fast bowlers and I know them feels. In domestic cricket he seems to have no trouble keeping it full so I think nerves are probably getting to him more than he lets on.

 

[hendrix]

Edit @ Hendrix: well yes, but he has shown better control when he pitches the ball up, and to an extent in the past with the back of a length crap. Control isn't universal, and some bowlers find it easier to control what they're doing with different lines and lengths.

Well, everything we've heard from the coaches and team is that on the subcontinent you need to pitch it up and bowl straight. No width, minimal short stuff etc etc.

I just find it hard to believe that Bond has other plans for Bracewell.

Especially given that he was opening the bowling, not bowling first change.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Nah there's no way Vettori would've bowled that many pies. He might not have been penetrative but he would've at least tied up an end.

Vettori is certainly better than ish or anderson but I still don't buy that he should be part of our strongest four man bowling lineup. It's no coincidence that our best recent test performances have come largely without Dan. If Kane didn't exist, he'd be batting 6 or 7 and sending down a few overs as a batting allrounder but now he's just not necessary.

It feels weird saying that, considering how many times he was a one-man team for us. I just get the feeling that he's a "Making losses look not so bad" specialist and isn't the kind of player capable of actually bringing us over the line.

 

[Mike5181]

Random post alert:

Anyone else think that the group of players we have at the moment, and will likely have in the mix sometime in the next few months (Milne, Ryder etc.) is just so much better to watch than what we've had in the last few years? I always had 3-4 players I liked watching, but with this group I genuinely enjoy watching all of:

Rutherford
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
McCullum
Watling+
Southee
Sodhi
Milne
Boult

Throw in Anderson, Neesham, Henry, Brownlie, Mitch, Wagner etc and Mike's happy. I'd have to go back a decade when Astle, Cairns, Sinclair, Bond, Fleming etc were all around to find an NZ team I enjoyed watching quite as much.