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New Zealand A Tour of India and Sri Lanka

Flem274*

123/5
He was always a pure swing bowler. I swear we have this argument every few months.

From what we've seen from under 19s all the way to the present mixed in with info that has trickled in from blokes close to the FC scene, Bracewell began as being straight up and down at 125kph, then short and wide at 135-140kph, then made a clear attempt to bowl fuller and closer to the stumps which generated hooping outswing at a slightly slower pace. That's what got him into the New Zealand test side. I have clear memory of him bowling full outswingers in both the HRV Cup televised games prior to selection and immediately after his test selection.

The sooner he stops this stupid Stuart Broad/Peter Siddle enforcer imitation that worked so well for those two (not) and pitches the ball up again the better.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
IMO. Bracewell at his most effective is when he bowls from from slightly wide (midway between stumps and popping crease), and angles in with his outswing straightening it towards the keeper. Attacking the top of the off pole with the danger of his swing getting the edge. Swing bowling where the 'leave' is a real risk. Plus the chance of seam movement crashing it into pads or leg stump (like Lyon).

So yes., a swing bowler, but with a difference. I hope he gets his mojo back, as that line of attack, if done well, should really compliment Southee and Boults lines,
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
A bit of a draft this video. Would like to find a good Sri Lankan musical theme.


 
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Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Bad news for Daemon and Arjun ftr. Looks like the picture quality was so crap for the India A red ball matches, it's not worthy of the vault. For now, anyway.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year

Very different temperament from Chops to what I remember! Taking proper quicks over cover for six during the first hour, settling on the sway-and-kneel as his preferred method for dealing with the inevitable consequences.
 

Flem274*

123/5
That's pleasing to see.

You wouldn't mind putting together some Kitchen footage would you? I'm curious to see how he's constructing these rapidfire knocks.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Yeah you can see why Pradeep keeps getting picked for things like this despite having an absolutely atrocious record in Test and First Class cricket.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I've been doing a bit of thinking about our bowlers, both fitness and selection wise.

The science says bowlers under 25 years of age will have growing pains at the best of times, even with the best actions possible. McHesson don't appear to subscribe to bowler rotation in tests like Australia do/did, but are quite happy to do so in ODIs. Where everyone should agree is there is a need to have a stable of at least six test standard pace bowlers in the modern era. McHesson also appear to favour experience and not letting ability go to waste easily, both in batting and bowling.

McHesson seem content at present to run with Southee, Boult, Wagner, Bracewell and Gillespie with Anderson present as a fifth bowling option. I think it is admirable the current regime refuses to let Gillespie retire without putting in every effort to follow him around kicking him up the jacksie while screaming "you will bowl to your potential!" through a megaphone. While I like Gillespie and I think he is the third best bowler in the country at peak fitness, I don't think I would have backed him to the hilt like McHesson have. I don't think New Zealand needs him and since I subscribe to the school of the Feral Abacus, I think the responsibility lies with the player to be at his best and not with the coaching staff, which either through the fragility of his own body or through his own doing, Gillespie can't manage without having a lot of bowling under his belt first.

I also think Gillespie is a dangerous pick when he's not peaking because along with the bakery offerings, he isn't very durable himself. In a group of bowlers where the majority are in the dangerous under 25 zone, you need your back up to be both durable and able to bowl to a reasonable standard. This is where the likes of Peter Siddle and his more accomplished peer James Anderson are worth their weight in gold: they never get injured and they're good. Siddle might have less potential than a Pattinson, a Harris or a Cummins but he will play every game and is world class or approaching it in his own right. Obviously New Zealand don't have anyone who combines the Siddle qualities in one package at the moment, but fitness is something you want from your reserves. Wagner and Bracewell are probably the most durable we have, and neither have proven to be either better than their peers or consistently test standard.

I also think we should look at what balance we want from the attack and how the reserves complement it. Wagner is the designated old ball bowler but two left armers in the side open us up to creating rough for offspinners when our two best spinners are left armers. Instead I think we should run with just the one left armer and bring in Milne, who isn't noted for his old ball merits but brings the ability to swing the ball both ways at pace into the frame. The offspinner is the most common spinner in the world and we can't be giving them rough every game, especially if Anderson comes into the side which would mean three left arm pacemen. I would keep Wagner in the reserves as back up for Boult and his durability is a plus. I know Milne isn't known for staying on the park but he has a good action so I'm optimistic his injury record will improve with time. Matt Henry is another who I think will be able to remain on the park more often as time passes.

I also think the Bracewell as third seamer back of a length enforcer experiment is an abject failure. He's a pitch it up outswing bowler or nothing afaic.

My bowling squad would be:

Southee - Bracewell (fast medium outswing)
Boult - Wagner (fast medium left arm swing)
Milne - Gillespie/Henry/Butler (no real correlations since Milne is unique on the first class scene, but all of those named would make good first change bowlers and two of them have tidy actions. Gillespie only plays if he's bowling well, but if he's bowling well he is the first choice)

And I'd be looking at Wheeler, Small, Mathieson, Verma, Bennett and Bartlett as blokes who can push for future squad selection. The squad looks no more or less injury prone than it is now but that's due to the age range of our best bowlers more than anything, and they are all players who I think will only get less injury prone as they mature.
 

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I've been doing a bit of thinking about our bowlers, both fitness and selection wise.

The science says bowlers under 25 years of age will have growing pains at the best of times, even with the best actions possible. McHesson don't appear to subscribe to bowler rotation in tests like Australia do/did, but are quite happy to do so in ODIs. Where everyone should agree is there is a need to have a stable of at least six test standard pace bowlers in the modern era. McHesson also appear to favour experience and not letting ability go to waste easily, both in batting and bowling.
I think the rotation thing is much less of an issue for New Zealand in test cricket because we play so little of it. The last 12 months have been hectic, and the next year looks busy too, but generally we play 8-9 tests a year, so I don't think rotating through mountains of test-capable quicks is as critical for us as it is for Australia (especially given that Boult appears to have been labelled as a test-match specialist for now). And I seriously doubt that many of those waiting in line are going to be able to effortlessly hit the standard set by Southee and Boult in the same way that guys like Harris and Patto can for Australia. Still, it's a nice thought.

I also think we should look at what balance we want from the attack and how the reserves complement it. Wagner is the designated old ball bowler but two left armers in the side open us up to creating rough for offspinners when our two best spinners are left armers. Instead I think we should run with just the one left armer and bring in Milne, who isn't noted for his old ball merits but brings the ability to swing the ball both ways at pace into the frame. The offspinner is the most common spinner in the world and we can't be giving them rough every game, especially if Anderson comes into the side which would mean three left arm pacemen. I would keep Wagner in the reserves as back up for Boult and his durability is a plus. I know Milne isn't known for staying on the park but he has a good action so I'm optimistic his injury record will improve with time. Matt Henry is another who I think will be able to remain on the park more often as time passes.
Well, if it hadn't been for the NZC's ****-up in not getting Milne's visa sorted in time for the India A tests, he might well have been in the frame for the current test series. I cautiously agree, with you, and this is definitely the right season to do it - 5 home tests with 3 tests against a good but unspectacular Windies batting lineup and 2 against a promising but untested India. I'd still like to see him pick up 20+ cheap wickets in his early season PS matches, but even if he doesn't, I think it's time. He provides good variation to the 130-140 swing of Southee and Boult, and with Bond as his coach I don't doubt that he'll pick up the rudiments of reverse quickly enough. The only sticking point is that Wagner deserves to hold on to his spot for the moment - he produced plenty of wickets in some pretty placid conditions against the 2nd best batting lineup in the world. Now I've never been a Wagner fan, but that should buy him some serious time at the top. I hear you re the foot-marks, but we all know that NZ pitches don't really tend to break up very much, so it's hard to argue that he should be vanishing any time soon. Further more, if Jesse comes back, and Anderson establishes himself (both HUGE ifs) then the top 7 will have a far more symmetrical look to it, partially mitigating the need to dispense with the 2 lfm experiment.

The backdoor for Milne might be if we get an early season green-top that demands 4 seamers. In that case, he really should jump the queue ahead of Dougeh and Fat-butt.

Southee - Bracewell (fast medium outswing)
Boult - Wagner (fast medium left arm swing)
Milne - Gillespie/Henry/Butler (no real correlations since Milne is unique on the first class scene, but all of those named would make good first change bowlers and two of them have tidy actions. Gillespie only plays if he's bowling well, but if he's bowling well he is the first choice)
I actually think Henry is probably better natural cover for Southee: 135ish, relentlessly accurate, gets some serious shape. Bracewell probably is closer to being Milne cover, in that he's a bit quicker than your average kiwi. Small might also make it into that bracket if he can stay on the park for more than 2 or 3 matches in a row. But I think Duffey is the most likely to offer serious competition for the 3rd seamers place in the long run. His height and pace set him almost as far apart from the rest of the herd as Milne. But that's still a loooooooong ways down the road.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
pretty much +1 to everything Bahnz said.

also, there's this:

10/11/2013
Sri Lanka vs BLACKCAPS - ODI
Mahinda Rajapaksa International Cricket Stadium, Hambantota - 2.30pm local time, 10pm NZ time
12/11/2013
Sri Lanka vs BLACKCAPS - ODI
Mahinda Rajapaksa International Cricket Stadium, Hambantota - 2.30pm local time, 10pm NZ time
16/11/2013
Sri Lanka vs BLACKCAPS - ODI
Rangiri Dambulla International Stadium - 10am local time, 9.30pm NZ time
19/11/2013
Sri Lanka vs BLACKCAPS - International Twenty-20
Pallekele International Cricket Stadium, Kandy - 7pm local time, 2.30AM 20 Nov NZ time
21/11/2013
Sri Lanka vs BLACKCAPS - International Twenty-20
Pallekele International Cricket Stadium, Kandy - 7pm local time, 2.30AM 20 Nov NZ time

27/10/2013 - 30/10/2013
Wellington Firebirds vs Otago Volts - First Class Match
Hawkins Basin Reserve, Wellington - 10:30am
31/10/2013 - 3/11/2013
Northern Knights vs Auckland Aces - First Class Match
Seddon Park, Hamilton - 10:30am
7/11/2013 - 10/11/2013
Wellington Firebirds vs Central Stags - First Class Match
Hawkins Basin Reserve, Wellington - 10:30am
12/11/2013 - 15/11/2013
Auckland Aces vs Canterbury Wizards - First Class Match
Eden Park Outer Oval, Auckland - 10:30am
19/11/2013 - 22/11/2013
Canterbury Wizards vs Otago Volts - First Class Match
MainPower Oval, Rangiora - 10:30am
26/11/2013 - 29/11/2013
Northern Knights vs Central Stags - First Class Match
Seddon Park, Hamilton - 10:30am


I.e. Milne will miss a good chunk of the Plunket shield due to being in the ODI squad for the SL ODIs.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I think the rotation thing is much less of an issue for New Zealand in test cricket because we play so little of it. The last 12 months have been hectic, and the next year looks busy too, but generally we play 8-9 tests a year, so I don't think rotating through mountains of test-capable quicks is as critical for us as it is for Australia (especially given that Boult appears to have been labelled as a test-match specialist for now). And I seriously doubt that many of those waiting in line are going to be able to effortlessly hit the standard set by Southee and Boult in the same way that guys like Harris and Patto can for Australia. Still, it's a nice thought.

Well, if it hadn't been for the NZC's ****-up in not getting Milne's visa sorted in time for the India A tests, he might well have been in the frame for the current test series. I cautiously agree, with you, and this is definitely the right season to do it - 5 home tests with 3 tests against a good but unspectacular Windies batting lineup and 2 against a promising but untested India. I'd still like to see him pick up 20+ cheap wickets in his early season PS matches, but even if he doesn't, I think it's time. He provides good variation to the 130-140 swing of Southee and Boult, and with Bond as his coach I don't doubt that he'll pick up the rudiments of reverse quickly enough. The only sticking point is that Wagner deserves to hold on to his spot for the moment - he produced plenty of wickets in some pretty placid conditions against the 2nd best batting lineup in the world. Now I've never been a Wagner fan, but that should buy him some serious time at the top. I hear you re the foot-marks, but we all know that NZ pitches don't really tend to break up very much, so it's hard to argue that he should be vanishing any time soon. Further more, if Jesse comes back, and Anderson establishes himself (both HUGE ifs) then the top 7 will have a far more symmetrical look to it, partially mitigating the need to dispense with the 2 lfm experiment.

The backdoor for Milne might be if we get an early season green-top that demands 4 seamers. In that case, he really should jump the queue ahead of Dougeh and Fat-butt.

I actually think Henry is probably better natural cover for Southee: 135ish, relentlessly accurate, gets some serious shape. Bracewell probably is closer to being Milne cover, in that he's a bit quicker than your average kiwi. Small might also make it into that bracket if he can stay on the park for more than 2 or 3 matches in a row. But I think Duffey is the most likely to offer serious competition for the 3rd seamers place in the long run. His height and pace set him almost as far apart from the rest of the herd as Milne. But that's still a loooooooong ways down the road.
I hate numbered lists but I cbf breaking up your post into chunks.

1. Good point, but you can also argue the flipside which is our archaic indoor training facilities, programmes and lack of test cricket mean our bowlers don't have the condition for test cricket. For 20 years New Zealand bowlers were almost permanently injured and it's a sad indictment the injuries only lessened when NZC raised the white flag and dispensed with the academy and the sports science. Apart from a few specialist coaches like Bond we don't have either the expertise or the facilities to condition fast bowlers to the extend other nations can, so I think a pool of bowlers is and always will be necessary.

2. Wagner has bought himself some time, but I think he will always be treading water due to not being overly accurate, quick or tall. Height and speed aren't impediments to being top class, and I've been impressed by his improvements in both looking after the ball and more recently in limited overs, but it's hard to keep your place when you have a tall 150kph quick who can swing it both ways breathing down your neck. He is definitely one who will earn himself the "runs in hard, bowls all day" tag as well and as we've seen with the idiotic calls to drop Siddle by some of our dumber or more New South Wales oriented Australian posters, the unfortunate reality is a slick shiny new bad boy who may have more style than substance will always get the nod over the honest trier in the eyes of NZC (see: Butler Mk I Ian, McKay Andy, Bennett Hamish), especially so in the McHesson regime who read kyear2's posts when deciding on their game plan. It's ironic considering Wagner himself was viewed so when he first landed on our shores.

And it doesn't help Wagner the new shiny toys on the block are actually good this time round.

3. I'm not sure how you're going to fit both Ryder and Anderson in the same top seven unless McCullum takes back the gloves or opens the batting.:p

4. I don't think Bracewell is very quick at all relative to his peers when he's bowling well. He can send the ball down in the low 140s spectrum but the quality of the deliveries declines at the same speed the ball is travelling. He is always at his best when he's bowling 130-135kph outies.

5. I'd be pretty surprised if Milne doesn't make his debut this summer, but hopefully also happy because it would mean one of the bowlers ahead of him was bowling nicely.

6. Those are good calls on both Small and Duffy
 

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
3. I'm not sure how you're going to fit both Ryder and Anderson in the same top seven unless McCullum takes back the gloves or opens the batting.:p

4. I don't think Bracewell is very quick at all relative to his peers when he's bowling well. He can send the ball down in the low 140s spectrum but the quality of the deliveries declines at the same speed the ball is travelling. He is always at his best when he's bowling 130-135kph outies.
It'll happen, you just watch! Poor Williamson will get squidged into the openers spot to allow it (coz we all know all number 3's can open the batting easy).

I'm just basing that on his bowling in the last 6 months. He was definitely quicker than Southee and Boult in England and was a yard quicker than the rest in SA too. That's just his default setting now apparently.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
Yup, that's the Kitchen I remember. All about balance and timing, and quite dubious on the back foot. Damn, I wasn't expecting Jacques Kallis but I was a bit optimistic his pull/hook improved last season when he scored all his runs.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year

Shares footage with the one above, except it's the first hour in full context. Vimukthi Perera the left-armer at the start, Dilruwan Perera from 3.21.

Chops trying a lot harder to impose himself on the game, as Gillespie would say, despite NZ A replying to 555/6.
 
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