Waugh, Border or Ponting?

[Richard]

Punter managed to beat a stronger India side without 'em.

Not really.. as far as i can remember Ponting only played in the last match against India and Australia lost that one.
Gilchrist captained rest of the match. Its also debatable whether that was a strong Indian team but it was a very good acheivment by Gilchrist thou.

I imagine sst was talking about the just-played Test series between Australia and India. Whether India were stronger in 2007\08 than 2003\04 is highly debatable, but beyond question they were far stronger in both than the rabble of 2004\05, where much that could go wrong did. Not only did they miss through injury in the 4 Tests Tendulkar (2), Ganguly (2), Pathan (2) and Harbhajan Singh (1), but they were substantially weakened by the continued selection of the inept Parthiv Patel and Aakash Chopra, with Dinesh Karthik and Gautam Gambhir only making their debuts once the series had gone. That in addition to the pitch at Bangalore behaving totally contrary to expectations (accurately summed-up by Dean Jones as "a lamb in wolf's clothing") and worse still that **** at the VCA deciding to deliberately sabotage India by ordering a green pitch at Nagpur.

Had India had all the players they missed fit throughout the series, had they picked Gambhir and Karthik from the start, had Warne been fit for the Fourth Test and Ponting for the First, Second and Third, and had India got the turner they got in Chennai in Bangalore and Nagpur, maybe then we'd be able to give a more as-was-expected appraisal of that series.

 

[Richard]

Well, beg to differ. Will allow others to opine.
History does show great captaincy matchups. Illingworth vs IChappell frinstance.
Who you appoint captain can make the difference between winning or losing, IMO.

History does indeed show great captains leading in the same series, but where does it show these captains doing battle?

And no, I don't think who you appoint as captain can make much difference, TBH. It will do sometimes, and obviously a very poor captain can be a divisive influence.

The calibre of the team means infinitely more than the calibre of the captain, though. A bad captain can lessen the impact of a fine team. A good captain cannot make a bad team any better than it is.

 

[Engle]

I see things a tad different.
Taylor came across Ranatunga (a worthy captaincy competitor), in the WC finals and lost.
Waugh took his team from near defeat in a WC, yet ultimately lifted it in victory.

 

[Richard]

But how much of that was to do with their captaincy and how much to do with the skills of their teams (and the opposition's)?

I honestly don't think Waugh's captaincy played that much of a part in Australia's WC99 victory - heck, good fortune played more of a part than his captaincy did.

In any case, I thought we were mostly assessing them as Test, rather than ODI, captains. Certainly people have been as batsmen, else Ponting would dwarf the others and Border wouldn't even be in Taylor's class, never mind the others.

 

[cover drive man]

Alright I'm going to talk about batting in tests for now. Although tbh I've grew up watching Ponting and Ponting is brilliant one of the best ever unfortunally I never saw much of Waugh and Border but I've always saw old matches but are they really enough to go on?

 

[Geoffboycott]

Toss up between Waugh and ponting for me. Border was the best captain tho.

 

[bagapath]

batting

ponting
border
waugh

fielding

ponting
border
waugh

bowling

waugh
border
ponting

captaincy

border
waugh
ponting

 

[kyear2]

batting

ponting
border
waugh

fielding

ponting
border
waugh

bowling

waugh
border
ponting

captaincy

border
waugh
ponting

This.

 

[akilana]

Border for captaincy
S Waugh for batting

 

[Expressway76]

Let's face it captaining a team with two ATG bowlers and an ATG keeper is effectively the proverbial flat track bully zone of captaincy

 

[Top_Cat]

Don't agree at all with Ponting below AB for bowling.

 

[uvelocity]

i do, id also note that border was damn close to ponting if not equal as a fielder

 

[Burgey]

Sometimes, late at night when sleep won't come to me, I think of Shane Watson trying on his prima donna act with AB as skipper.

And I smile, then sleep soundly.

 

[smash84]

 

[Top_Cat]

i do, id also note that border was damn close to ponting if not equal as a fielder

Look we all love AB as a cricketer and man but, short mid-wicket aside (which he basically invented), Ponting canes him in the deep. Ponting arm from the fence was and probably still is ridiculous. Both not awesome slippers, but.

 

[Geoffboycott]

It's so hard to split Waugh and ponting for me. I've grown up in the era of ponting and only caught the back end of waughs career from 2001 onwards really. Pontings been my cricketing hero all my life but lately Ive started watching and reading about Waugh. His innings of 200 against the west indies has got the be one of the greatest ever and ponting hasn't come close to it. Both are just as brave and both are just as determined as each other. But I think Waugh must have had a better defence because he got runs when wickets were doing a lot. But it's strange because ponting has the better technique. Hard to say how's better really.

 

[kyear2]

Sometimes, late at night when sleep won't come to me, I think of Shane Watson trying on his prima donna act with AB as skipper.

And I smile, then sleep soundly.

lol

Look we all love AB as a cricketer and man but, short mid-wicket aside (which he basically invented), Ponting canes him in the deep. Ponting arm from the fence was and probably still is ridiculous. Both not awesome slippers, but.

Ponting was the better slipper and also better at backward point and in the outfield. Border was in no way bad, just Ponting was special in the field.

Among some of the players who were ATG top tier batsmen who were also superb in the field (slips in particular) in the Punter class:
Sobers, Chappell, Hammond, Weekes, B. Richards, Lara, Kallis and Harvey.

 

[uvelocity]

Look we all love AB as a cricketer and man but, short mid-wicket aside (which he basically invented), Ponting canes him in the deep. Ponting arm from the fence was and probably still is ridiculous. Both not awesome slippers, but.

yeah you're right he definitely has him by streets in the deep, but really how often were either of them out there, i was more thinking how they were both ridiculous from mid pitch at hitting the pegs and both with the safest of mitts

 

[Burgey]

Ian Bell, apparently.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

As a captain I'd chose Border. His leadership was tough when it was needed. Batting is so much harder. I think Waugh loses to the other two. His toughness wasn't up to Border and his shot making was nowhere near Ponting. Full flight I'd take Ponting but Border was someone I would hate to not have in a crisis.