The "I told you so" and "I was wrong" Thread.

[BoyBrumby]

Selectors really like those runs down the order too, eh? Otherwise Woakes's call up makes no sense. Not convinced he has the armoury to trouble test batsmen on anything but the most raging greentops. & I can't see The Oval being that.

Yep.

Gives me no pleasure because he's a lovely lad, but yeah, I'm paying that. Wishful thinking on the selectors' parts IMHO.

 

[Furball]

What if he's been selected to bat at 6, average 40 odd and chip in with 10-15 overs of bowling as the 4th seamer?

 

[BoyBrumby]

4th seamer puts his bowling behing Trott's in the current XI...

Harsh, but not unwarranted.

But nah, he'd be getting a nosebleed at #6.

My guess he'll bat behind Prior at least.

 

[GIMH]

4th seamer puts his bowling behing Trott's in the current XI...

Harsh, but not unwarranted.

But nah, he'd be getting a nosebleed at #6.

My guess he'll bat behind Prior at least.

Didn't cook say he was batting 6?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Didn't cook say he was batting 6?

He'd been drinking tho, obviously.

 

[Furball]

4th seamer puts his bowling behing Trott's in the current XI...

Harsh, but not unwarranted.

But nah, he'd be getting a nosebleed at #6.

My guess he'll bat behind Prior at least.

ftr at Brisbane I'm assuming Kerrigan gets replaced by Finn or Tremlett.

I'm also talking about Woakes being selected primarily as a batsman, last 3 seasons he's scored 1,395 Championship runs @51.66 with 3 tons.

 

[Cabinet96]

Think Woakes at 6 is just because he's less aggressive than Prior and they like Matty to have licence. I've already said it in more detail in the match thread, but I really don't think Woakes was that bad today. Watson is the sort of batsman who can destroy a bowler who's slightly hittable pace if he's not incredibly good with length, and he (Watston) was in great touch today. He certainly wasn't terrible when you consider he's technically a fifth bowler in this match. Six might be a place too high, but he's been better than a lot of the batting contenders recently as well. Averaging 50 in div 1 for three years is really going beyond handy lower order runs.

I'm probably more biased than Dan and Nick Knight when it comes to Woakes though. Seriously wub him.

 

[Furball]

Longer term if we're going:

Cook
Root
Trott
KP
Bell
Woakes
Prior
Bresnan/Finn/Tremlett/Onions
Broad
Swann
Jimmeh

Obviously if Bresnan's not in that side then bump Broad and Swann up a place, but yeah. Woakes has scored good runs in County Cricket in the last 3 years and if he can bat 6, average around 40 and bowl 10-15 overs an innings then his selection makes sense from that POV. For one thing, it might stop Cook bowling Anderson into the ground.

 

[MW1304]

He's not averaging 40 in Tests, not happening.

 

[GIMH]

Should just bat Root at 6 and play him as the 5th bowler. Could have played Tremlett then and had Trescothick open with Cook

 

[Daemon]

Woakes infinitely more likely to average 40 with the ball in Tests compared to the bat. I know ODIs aren't a great way to judge a player but he's not good enough to be consistently batting at 6 for a side like England.

 

[Cabinet96]

Should just bat Root at 6 and play him as the 5th bowler. Could have played Tremlett then and had Trescothick open with Cook

Not even that likely to be opening for Somerset much longer tbh

 

[Uppercut]

Woakes infinitely more likely to average 40 with the ball in Tests compared to the bat. I know ODIs aren't a great way to judge a player but he's not good enough to be consistently batting at 6 for a side like England.

CW used to overstate that a lot back in the Richard days, but when someone's only ever batting at 7 or lower in ODIs you really just can't tell at all how good they'd be in tests.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah, Woakes' list A batting stats aren't much, so there's clearly more than just a step up in quality that prevents him from scoring loads in the format. Here's very much a First Class cricketer in both assets of his game.

 

[Daemon]

I'm not doubting that he's a much better player in the longer form of the game, but from looking that uncomfortable in ODIs to averaging 40 in Tests.. well, it's just a bit of a stretch imo.

 

[Uppercut]

Nah he's regularly coming in with like five overs left and having to score as quickly as possible. It's not even his game at all, he's crap in domestic OD games too. You just can't learn anything from it, plenty of really good batsmen would look just as bad in those situations.

Conclusion might be right though ftr.

 

[Daemon]

Nah he's regularly coming in with like five overs left and having to score as quickly as possible. It's not even his game at all, he's crap in domestic OD games too. You just can't learn anything from it, plenty of really good batsmen would look just as bad in those situations.

Conclusion might be right though ftr.

Not quite true, only happened once in fact

It's true that he's only batted when quick runs are required or England are in a **** situation though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Not quite true, only happened once in fact

It's true that he's only batted when quick runs are required or England are in a **** situation though.

Well one way to look at it is that he averages 18 in List A cricket so the fact that he's only managed an average of 23 or whatever in ODI cricket hasn't at all suggested that his batting talents can't translate to the top level. If you only watched him play domestic OD cricket I'd sure you'd not come to the conclusion that he'd be a 38 average (50 or so in the last three seasons) batsman in the County Championship either.

I'm definitely not saying he's going to a Test standard batsman as such, but how he's done in ODI cricket says even less about his Test prospects than it does most players because he's gash at one day cricket even domestically anyway.

 

[Flametree]

To get back to the original topic title, I'll admit to being wrong about Steve Smith. Didn't think he was more than a 28-30 average sort of batsman. And being a kiwi, you'd think I could spot one when I saw one...

 

[GIMH]

Geoff Boycott labelled him a club batsman on Wednesday. Said if he goes on to a 50 then anyone who doesn't should be ashamed.