DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen - The Top 25

[Migara]

All of the other bolwers he faced even if not all at once. Voce, Allen, Verity, Rhodes, Grimmett, Ironmonger. Overall he probably faced a consistently higher level of especially pace bolwing than Hammond and he didn't get to face the minnows like Hammond and Bradman did.

Simply, Bradman and Hobbs faced inferior quality bowling compared to Headly. Latter two never had to face their own bowlers.

 

[hendrix]

I think if you're a seam-dominant pace attack (i.e. Australia in the 2000s) then yes, SL is a place where you'll struggle. Plenty of swing bowlers do fine there though. Vaas, the Pakistani bowlers. Hell, even someone like Kulasekara does all right.

Just gotta play to the conditions: pitch it up, get late swing. Not every pitch needs to play like Australia.

 

[Cabinet96]

They are tailor made for Murali, the difference is that except for when Warne came to town they were not any other spinners around to exploit them from opposing teams. The tracks are slow and useless for opposing seamers of which most opposing teams attacks are primarily made up. The wickets in Sri Lanka are roads for pace bolwers and cannon fodder for the likes of Sangakkara and Mahela who have fully exploited them. It also wouldn't be so bad if he didn't play such a disproportionate amout of games at home or played more games againts Bangladesh than Australia and all of this in an era Steyn apart is devoid of great fast bolwers.

But you accept that they offer purchase for spinners, right? So when a guy like Mehala destroys Swann and Monty to all parts in a series in Sri Lanka, it should actually be credited instead of being useless home runs that prove he's a FTB.

Your point about most sides being mostly made up of seamers is pretty redundant. Plenty of sides have spinners as their main bowlers, who usually bowl a large chunk of overs. All Asian sides, and even England and the West Indies would probably look for spin to be their main weapon if they went to SL tomorrow. That's more than half the test playing nations. Furthermore, if that's the atttidue, shouldn't we pretty much discount a lot of the runs scored by Australian and South African batsman at home against Asian sides, who are usually spin dominant?

Besides, The Sean nailed it with his post. You can't determine the merits of someones career simply by statsguruing which continents they get most of their runs in. There are flat wickets in Asia, just like there are flat wickets everywhere; but there are also pitches that do a lot, just like there are pitches that do a lot everywhere. To really determine the merit of someones runs, you need to watch their innings, and in the case of a players career, most of their innings.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think if you're a seam-dominant pace attack (i.e. Australia in the 2000s) then yes, SL is a place where you'll struggle. Plenty of swing bowlers do fine there though. Vaas, the Pakistani bowlers. Hell, even someone like Kulasekara does all right.

Just gotta play to the conditions: pitch it up, get late swing. Not every pitch needs to play like Australia.

The same Australia where the so called great South Africa attack, bowling to the so called rubbish Australian batting line up, conceded over 500 half the time they bowled? Seemed like Roads to me.

 

[hendrix]

I'm wondering how many actual series in the past 20 years have actually been played on green tops?

 

[Expressway76]

I'm wondering how many actual series in the past 20 years have actually been played on green tops?

I seem to remember the Windies being treated to a couple of green-ish tops on the return series in 2009 after they went ahead against us in the Caribbean and then prepared boredom inducing "Even Ravi Bopara can score on these" roads to induce draws for the rest of the series.

 

[hendrix]

They're few and far between.

Yet there are plenty of "tricky" wickets - all over the world including the subcontinent.

Dunedin is probably flatter than most SC wickets. Hell, anywhere India's played in the past few years outside of England has been bloody flat.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm wondering how many actual series in the past 20 years have actually been played on green tops?

India in New Zealand in 2002-03 would be about it, I think.

 

[Cabinet96]

Even the pitches in the England series weren't ones you'd label seamer friendly. Games in England are maybe slightly more seamer friendly than most, but it's almost all to do with atmospheric conditions and the Duke. Pitches are usually flat, without the pace and bounce of the ones in Australia.

 

[hendrix]

India in New Zealand in 2002-03 would be about it, I think.

This is the one that people always bring up.

So so sad as it was a great series. Bond was excellent and the conditions suited Tuffey et al.

Dravid scored runs, WAG

 

[akilana]

The Murali's controversial run out series in NZ was played on greentops too IIRC

 

[Coronis]

This thread has become a top source of amusement for me. Bring on Headley.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

The Murali's controversial run out series in NZ was played on greentops too IIRC

Good call. Hard to forget how well Chamara Silva played at Wellington (after a disastrous debut in Christchurch) only to disappear again shortly after. Whatever happened to him?

 

[kyear2]

Either of Hammond, Sangakkara or Kallis next. The way things have played out though, could be anyone.

 

[Slifer]

both headley and pollock, absolute masters of the art of batting, deserve to be in the top 30. but there are 25 other batters who are equally or more talented than them (in the case of bradman for example) who played longer, maintained their high standards over a variety of opponents for decades and hence should be ranked above them.

as for stats and whatnot.... Sachin Tendulkar and Greg Chappell happen to belong to the rarest of the rare breed of batters who average 35+ against all opponents both home and away. Chappell didn't get to play in India and didn't score a hundred against New Zealand in Australia. But he succeeded against all possible challenges thrown at him. Sachin has played against all test playing nations of his time both home and away (except B'desh at home) and scored hundreds against all of them (except in Zim) maintaining a 40+ average against each of them (except a sub 40 avg against SA at home).

It is sensible to predict that a Ponting would struggle in India or a Kallis would have tough time in Sri Lanka. Even the great Viv Richards can be expected to fail in New Zealand. But in terms of consistency and all round success Greg Chappell and, even more definitely, Sachin Tendulkar top the list all around the globe. This factor and runs against top nations of the era (Windies of the 80s, Aussies bet '95 and '05) are usually considered in how I judge great batsmen.

AWTA especially the bit about G Chappell. IMO the second best Ozzie batsman of all time and in the argument for 2nd best after Bradman worldwide

 

[Slifer]

No worse than Headley being in the top 10. He was a minnow basher.

Pray tell what minnow team Headley bashed ??

 

[bagapath]

Has not played much in WI so could say nothing about that. And if Australia was home he would play more matches and Aussie turfs as well. Put him on WI tracks, he will pile on runs given the WI attacks. In England he has been poor. (And BTW, he and SRT both averaged same against the current English attack. And we can see how SRt would do against Steyn, Morkel and Philander this time around to get and idea whether Sanga's record against them poor or not.)

hahahahahah. what rubbish. how does it matter whether Sachin does well against them this time around or not? sanga hasnt done well in SA and that is the point. and we dont have to wait for anything Migara. Sachin has already done well against the SA bowlers. but there is no connection between his records and sanga's. and sanga has already been a flop show in WI. so please "wakey wakey".

 

[bagapath]

No worse than Headley being in the top 10. He was a minnow basher.

quite possibly the most uninformed comment of the year in CW.

Headley played for a minnow. And he bashed the bigger teams. His success against Aus/Eng should count at least as much as - if not more than - Andy Flower's against the bigger teams of his era.

 

[Spark]

South Africa have thrown up their fair share of spicy decks over the past few years.

 

[Migara]

hahahahahah. what rubbish. how does it matter whether Sachin does well against them this time around or not? sanga hasnt done well in SA and that is the point. and we dont have to wait for anything Migara. Sachin has already done well against the SA bowlers. but there is no connection between his records and sanga's. and sanga has already been a flop show in WI. so please "wakey wakey".

Touche! The fact is that when kept side bu side aianst same SA bowlers, Sanga and SRT have averaged very close to each other (i.e. around 40). SRT had a very good series against a Philander less SAF team, while Sanga struggled against Philander, but not Morket and Steyn in SAF. So the comparison becomes very valid. Sanga's not so stellat stats against SAF is that he played best of SAF attacks at their peaks. Up to against same attacks, Sanga and SRT have very comparable stats.

He may turn up this season and may bludgeon Philander, because he is that good, but the hard facts stay the same as I mentioned.