*Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

[MW1304]

I missed this whole ****ing match and it's ****ing Yorkshire's fault **** you Yorkshire.

 

[Adders]

Hey KFK......where did your post go that was just here??

I wanted to add to it myself over that certain moderators unwarranted finger pointing yesterday and with the hope that they have now got over their bad mood and may have the good grace to right some wrongs.

 

[Howe_zat]

Adders, I wasn't calling you names, I was pointing out a fallacy that happens a lot. Trying to help you out.

 

[Adders]

Adders, I wasn't calling you names, I was pointing out a fallacy that happens a lot. Trying to help you out.

Warmongering and Poor Form were the terms. But that wasn't what ticked me off........the fact a moderator liked your post and then quoted it using me as an example for why this forum is generally better than others has me majorly ropeable. All over something that wasn't even there.......

How saying both Aussies and English are guilty of something is an attempt at warmongering is incredible. Both you and Pews misinterpreted what I was trying to say and I'm still extremely pissed at how it ended up with the posts there for all to see.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Adders don't worry about it, we need you to stay to give us the real perspective when we win in the winter.

 

[Furball]

Warmongering and Poor Form were the terms. But that wasn't what ticked me off........the fact a moderator liked your post and then quoted it using me as an example for why this forum is generally better than others has me majorly ropeable. All over something that wasn't even there.......

How saying both Aussies and English are guilty of something is an attempt at warmongering is incredible. Both you and Pews misinterpreted what I was trying to say and I'm still extremely pissed at how it ended up with the posts there for all to see.

Dry your eyes mate.

 

[Adders]

Dry your eyes mate.

Poor form son.

 

[the big bambino]

According to Sky the Clarke ball was the fastest of the match @ 91 MPH. Is a wonderful double standard though, that England fans don't give oppo any credit for getting our bats out but Aussies nark on about how bad there batting was.

That isn't a double standard. The former is arrogance while the latter is a fact which isn't offered as an excuse.

 

[hendrix]

According to Sky the Clarke ball was the fastest of the match @ 91 MPH. Is a wonderful double standard though, that England fans don't give oppo any credit for getting our bats out but Aussies nark on about how bad there batting was.

since when was bad batting and good bowling mutually exclusive?

It's the "3rd gear" type comments that are irritating. Noone is suggesting that Australia are batting below their level, it's just generally acknowledged that their batsmen aren't that good (yet). Yet plenty of posters are suggesting that England are batting well below their level. That is not giving the opposition credit for bowling well.

There are 11 players that bat in an innings. Some will under-perform, some will over-perform. Sometimes the team will over-perform, sometimes the team will under-perform. Likewise, there are 5 test matches this series, and 5 next. Sometimes the team will over-perform, sometimes it will under-perform.

It's fair to say that Prior has underperformed and bell has over-performed.

The team as a whole? Across the series? no.

 

[Furball]

I think some people, particularly Alistair Cook, are just surprised that the Australian bowlers seem to have worked out that aiming the ball somewhere near the 3 wooden things is a good idea.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I think the majority of people are just shocked at how many England bats are out of form/found out by the Aussie attack. Trott hasn't been the same player since his injury v India and has also found some mad ways to get out, Cook looks totally out of nick, KP just wants to smash it and Root and Bairstow are kids struggling in their first major series. As for Prior well he has been woeful since his heroics in NZ but has enough in the bank to be let off for now, hopefully it is a temporary thing.

 

[91Jmay]

since when was bad batting and good bowling mutually exclusive?

It's the "3rd gear" type comments that are irritating. Noone is suggesting that Australia are batting below their level, it's just generally acknowledged that their batsmen aren't that good (yet). Yet plenty of posters are suggesting that England are batting well below their level. That is not giving the opposition credit for bowling well.

There are 11 players that bat in an innings. Some will under-perform, some will over-perform. Sometimes the team will over-perform, sometimes the team will under-perform. Likewise, there are 5 test matches this series, and 5 next. Sometimes the team will over-perform, sometimes it will under-perform.

It's fair to say that Prior has underperformed and bell has over-performed.

The team as a whole? Across the series? no.

ermm, thats what we are arguing. Strange post that, undermining yourself.
Most of Englands bats have underperformed, Bell aside who has clearly massively over-performed and Root/Bairstow probably performed to there levels. A classic example is giving Australia loads of credit for Cook's 2nd dig dismissal this test, when Harris even said after the game the delivery that got him was supposed to be the inswinger that slipped wide as the way they plan to get Cook is LBW. He has nicked off a few times, not due to a plan, due to poor shots.

However Australia have a better bowling attack than England, and have bowled well but I can't see how anyone can have watched this series and seriously tell me Trott hasn't completely got himself out 3 times.

 

[Adders]

Jeeez, I'm struggling to believe this debate.....

KP - Series average 34.50. Career Average 48.29..........14 below.
Cook - Series average 27.25. Career Average 48.08........20 below.
Trott - Series average 24.25. Career Average 47.33.........23 below.
Prior - Series average 14.33. Career Average 42.31.........28 below.

Now lets look at the Aussie bowling averages series V's career....

Harris - Series average 19.25. Career Average 22.32........3 below.
Siddle - Series average 26.29. Career Average 28.58........2 below
Starc - Series average 27.12. Career Average 32.57.........5 below.
Lyon - Series average 25.00. Career Average 32.40..........7 below (interesting that one.....best improved??)
Patto - Series average 43.85. Career Average 26.42.........17 Over
Twatto - Series average 78.5. Career Average 31.57..........46 Over.
Bird - Series average 62.5. Career Average 23.30..............39.20 Over

Don't think it is right to say England were in 3rd gear, but if we can't say that our batsmen underperformed and their form is a concern then something is very wrong with the world. I agree with Cooky monster that we were at 80% and he got flamed for saying so.

 

[Top_Cat]

ermm, thats what we are arguing. Strange post that, undermining yourself.
Most of Englands bats have underperformed, Bell aside who has clearly massively over-performed and Root/Bairstow probably performed to there levels. A classic example is giving Australia loads of credit for Cook's 2nd dig dismissal this test, when Harris even said after the game the delivery that got him was supposed to be the inswinger that slipped wide as the way they plan to get Cook is LBW. He has nicked off a few times, not due to a plan, due to poor shots.

However Australia have a better bowling attack than England, and have bowled well but I can't see how anyone can have watched this series and seriously tell me Trott hasn't completely got himself out 3 times.

Yes but what led to those poor shots? You're missing 95% of the fundamentals of getting wickets against anyone who knows how to wield the stick if you concentrate on the wicket ball itself.

Winning series' isn't just about making sure you're playing well but preventing the other ****s from playing well too. Want proof? Look at the team the leading wicket takers and run-scorers played for in the '09 Ashes series and then look at who won the series.

 

[GotSpin]

Winning and saying your playing in third gear reeks of arrogance. Maybe our attack was more disciplined with precise plans

 

[91Jmay]

Exaclty, but apparently Ian Bell improving his average by about 30% covers those drops in career average.

 

[91Jmay]

Yes but what led to those poor shots? You're missing 95% of the fundamentals of getting wickets against anyone who knows how to wield the stick if you concentrate on the wicket ball itself.

Winning the battles isn't just about making sure you're playing well but preventing the other ****s from playing well too.

Trotts were completely inexplicable. At Trent Bridge Trott looked totally at ease, was scoring at 60 per 100 balls and then dragged a ball 3 feet outside offstump on.

Siddle to Trott, OUT, Siddle again! What a day he's having. Crucial moment. Very un-Trott like as he goes for a booming drive to a wide delivery and gets an inside edge which demolishes his stumps. Another poor shot from an England batsman

At Lords Trott managed to flick a length ball to square leg when he looked again completely untroubled and was striking at 66

Harris to Trott, OUT, short ball, Trott pulls and gets it all wrong, there's a man at deep square leg and he takes a comfortable catch. Trott suckered in and gets a top edge on a pull stroke and from serene progress, England are back in trouble, Trott has given it away, he just hurried a little, tried to paddle it and put it a long way up in the air

And this test in the first innings he looked totally comfortable and then got himself out to a straight one from Lyon. I predicted it in the game thread because he had done it twice already in the series.

 

[hendrix]

Jeeez, I'm struggling to believe this debate.....

KP - Series average 34.50. Career Average 48.29..........14 below.
Cook - Series average 27.25. Career Average 48.08........20 below.
Trott - Series average 24.25. Career Average 47.33.........23 below.
Prior - Series average 14.33. Career Average 42.31.........28 below.

Now lets look at the Aussie bowling averages series V's career....

Harris - Series average 19.25. Career Average 22.32........3 below.
Siddle - Series average 26.29. Career Average 28.58........2 below
Starc - Series average 27.12. Career Average 32.57.........5 below.
Lyon - Series average 25.00. Career Average 32.40..........7 below (interesting that one.....best improved??)
Patto - Series average 43.85. Career Average 26.42.........17 Over
Twatto - Series average 78.5. Career Average 31.57..........46 Over.
Bird - Series average 62.5. Career Average 23.30..............39.20 Over

Don't think it is right to say England were in 3rd gear, but if we can't say that our batsmen underperformed and their form is a concern then something is very wrong with the world. I agree with Cooky monster that we were at 80% and he got flamed for saying so.

Fancy putting up the rest of the batsmen's averages? Bell? The Australians'? How's Clarke going?

England's bowling averages? How have Stuart Broad and Graeme Swann been going relative to their careers?

Really, all that you can glean from reading these averages is that the bowling from both sides is a strength relative to their batting. That's been known about both teams for a long time and I don't see why it should mean that either are underperforming with the bat.

We're up to the 5th test in the series FFS. You don't get to call it underperforming for the whole team over 4 tests. That's just rubbish.

 

[Maximas]

The pitches haven't been roads either, and don't forget the pressure of an ashes series as well, both teams underperforming with the bat, england simply the better team.

 

[91Jmay]

The pitches haven't been roads either, and don't forget the pressure of an ashes series as well, both teams underperforming with the bat, england simply the better team.

That's exactly what I think. Both teams performing around 80% of there ability.