*Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

[Furball]

This is a valuable point. It often takes time to feel you belong at a certain level. It's much easier to come into a settled side which can afford to give you time to adjust. Blokes like Hayden, Martyn, Langer and Ponting came into a side which was winning and settled, and could learn from the established players.

Currently Australia is trying to balance the need to develop certain players with the desire for short term results. It's less of an issue with the bowling, because there is genuine depth there and the physical requirements of that discipline means there will be some rotation between players. The batting is a different story though, with chopping and changing and moving between positions really leading to instability in the side. You get the impression blokes like Khawaja, Hughes, Cowan etc are playing for their spot every time they go out to bat. It's not a healthy mind set for inexperienced players.

It helps in terms of winning the Ashes as well IMO. KP and Bell have played in 4 victorious series; Cook, Prior, Anderson, Swann and Broad in 3.

Contrast that experience with Australia's, whose 2 most successful players are Clarke (1 series win, 4 defeats) and Siddle (14 Ashes Tests, 2 wins).

 

[grecian]

No doubt Mitch Starc has been hit by peoples views of the other Mitch, mind you I think Johnson has been badly treated too, but I will still chuckle at the pissant.

Bird is decent, but he offers no real big difference to the oz side then Harris, Siddle or even Watto, either of the Mitches offer you better variation, and they give you a batting option.

 

[Top_Cat]

Bird is decent, but he offers no real big difference to the oz side then Harris, Siddle or even Watto, either of the Mitches offer you better variation, and they give you a batting option.

*throws things*

 

[benchmark00]

have you seen the Rad LBW yet, I'm waiting for the fume

Nah haven't seen it. Did he get Hill'd?

 

[grecian]

Nah haven't seen it. Did he get Hill'd?

He did, got given out, for a very iffy decision, the DRS showed that it may have just hit the top of leg stump, never out IMHO, mind you Broad was all over him.

 

[Cabinet96]

Nah haven't seen it. Did he get Hill'd?

Sort of. Was trimming the leg bail by the smallest possible amount.

 

[Uppercut]

Nah disagree mate, mainly with Trott who hasn't got out to a good ball all series. Prior also hasn't exactly batted to his best degree.

I'm not sure why we're even having this argument, surely players have in form and out of form times, Trott and Cook have been out in really poor ways all through the series. Doesn't mean they're poor, but just they've not been contributing at optimum performance. Of course they're playing below their normal average of play, it's farcical to say otherwise.

and Bell has done a lot better than normal, that's what happens over short periods.

Yeah I agree, I was talking about the batting as a whole. It's not been easy for their batsmen and they've generally put up alright totals, mostly over 300 and nothing under 200. It's not too far from what you'd expect.

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah I agree, I was talking about the batting as a whole. It's not been easy for their batsmen and they've generally put up alright totals, mostly over 300 and nothing under 200. It's not too far from what you'd expect.

Yeah you are probably right, however Manchester you'd certainly have expected a 400+ total. Have lacked that huge total so far that even Australia managed.

 

[ajdude]

Didn't think I was going to wake up with the game all over, but it's not unexpected. Sounds like Warner did well which is a positive.

Nice that Siddle got 20 odd, means he's cemented in the number 8 position until the apocalypse. Usman's gotta go.

Now everyone close their eyes and imagine the posting if Starc got figures of 2/125 on a pitch that suited him.

you know what this means right? no ****ing quiz tonight

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Just wondering - are there still Australian posters out there who think Siddle isn't good enough for this team? I mean, he didn't have that good a game here - does this put him under pressure for his place again in your eyes?

Obviously, he's a fixture in my Australian XI, but I know there are those who've harboured significant doubts about his place in the team - do those doubts still exist.

Notwithstanding the fact he should be batting below Harris, Starc and Pattinson.

 

[morgieb]

Just wondering - are there still Australian posters out there who think Siddle isn't good enough for this team? I mean, he didn't have that good a game here - does this put him under pressure for his place again in your eyes?

Obviously, he's a fixture in my Australian XI, but I know there are those who've harboured significant doubts about his place in the team - do those doubts still exist.

Notwithstanding the fact he should be batting below Harris, Starc and Pattinson.

No. My main doubt was that I wasn't sure he was better than Bird, Pattinson and Harris, but I think now he's better than Bird at least.

 

[Maximas]

Siddle is safe for mine

 

[Jono]

Siddle looks unfit and Bird isn't as good as you lot hyped him up to be.

Aren't you the same bloke that said this about Philander after one test?

Look Bird was hyped as being McGrath the 2nd by the crims, bowled slow filth for most of the day today after a pretty ordinary first few days. Hard to be impressed by him after so much hype.

All well and good, but you obviously learned nothing from writing off Philander after seeing him once. You'd think you'd realise that one should judge a cricketer on a larger body of evidence.

 

[Cabinet96]

Especially when they're very similar bowlers (in style at least).

 

[Jono]

Siddle is safe for mine

He better be. Have a bet with a mate that an Australian fast bowler WOULD play all 5 tests. Patto, Starc, Harris and Bird have obviously already missed a test. Siddle is my only hope. If he were dropped or got injured for the 5th I'd be pretty ****ty.

 

[morgieb]

Siddle won't be dropped. May be rested though.

 

[benchmark00]

Just wondering - are there still Australian posters out there who think Siddle isn't good enough for this team? I mean, he didn't have that good a game here - does this put him under pressure for his place again in your eyes?

Obviously, he's a fixture in my Australian XI, but I know there are those who've harboured significant doubts about his place in the team - do those doubts still exist.

Notwithstanding the fact he should be batting below Harris, Starc and Pattinson.

Siddle, Harris and Bird are all very similar with Harris being the best but not so durable. Add in an always injured Cummins and you have a good stable of genuine seamers.

Pattinson is a hybrid in that he can swing and seam, he is a genuine lock every time for me, but we'll put him in the first category for the sake of it here.

Then you have Starc who is an out and out swing bowler.

Our best attack is two of the first lot + a swing bowler + spinner + Watson.

Any more of than that (as in seamers) is overkill, but our attack is at its most potent when there's a mix of swing and seam with more emphasis being on seam but not neglecting the swing element.

So on any given day Siddle can be taken or left.

 

[Maximas]

Harris, Pattinson,Starc and Lyon is probably our best attack according to the Benchmark method, I don't mind that tbh

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Siddle, Harris and Bird are all very similar with Harris being the best but not so durable.... So on any given day Siddle can be taken or left.

Interesting. If it came down to a choice between Harris and Siddle, would we be likely to see a horses-for-courses selection. What I mean by this is depending on the surface expected, would you take Siddle over Harris if you were expecting the pitch to be a very flat batting deck by virtue of the fact that Siddle is both less likely to get injured and more likely to keep a high intensity for longer spells?

Based on what you've said, I take it that your ideal line up is Harris (best but not so durable), Pattison (lock - when fit), Starc (swing variation, left arm), Spinner + Watson? Siddle being first in line if Harris/Pattinson are unfit?

 

[Maximas]

Harris is our best bowler, he would make our team whenever fit IMO