• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* Third Test at Old Trafford

Spikey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
clarke's chances of taking wickets are reduced anyway by lowering the amount of deliveries at his disposal, no?
I mean, basically by tea I feel we were at a point of diminishing returns - each ball lost by australia was more important than each half a run scored, given the likelihood of interrupted play (seen of course about 30-40 minutes later) and English time wasting. If we set 290 odd and Cook/Root successfully put on 100 runs for the loss of no wickets in 25 overs then you say kudos, but one has to admit that situation is less likely than australia not having enough time to dismiss england.
 

benchmark00

Request Your Custom Title Now!
clarke's chances of taking wickets are reduced anyway by lowering the amount of deliveries at his disposal, no?
No because it balances out. Going hard for 3 and a half sessions is better than going hard for one session and medium level of hardness (:naughty:) for the remainder.

If you advocate remaining really aggressive even after they get off to a flyer with a highly chaseable target then you risk it being over in two and a bit sessions, meaning you don't get those extra overs anyway.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The people giving it to Clarke for not declaring earlier, how many of you have genuinely captained a cricket side at any level? Not trying to be a dick about this, just genuinely curious.
I've captained a senior team to glory. I made the correct calls - making sure I batted 11 and bowled as little as possible. The team even featured Smudge.

I don't think that experience has given me adequate background to decide whether the declaration was timed well.

However, years of reading cricket fora has shown me that a declaration was only ever timed well with revisionist hindsight.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
As much as Clarke has to consider the weather changing he has to consider the possibility of it holding. In the case of the latter 290 is gettable even with the track record of OT. I think 325 is the happy medium btwn those possibilities and the fact that the umps took them off is just one of the many imponderables he could not foresee and therefore base his calculation.
 

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
I still think it was really unlikely England would try to chase 300 with overs lost due to the weather, knowing that all they had to do was draw the test to return the urn.
 

dontcloseyoureyes

BARNES OUT
Are you seriously suggesting sports fans shouldn't criticise players unless they've been players themselves? That is completely unreasonable, IMO.
No, nothing of the sort. I was merely trying to gauge whether my "experience" had an affect on the way I viewed the situation compare to people who haven't had the same.

Though just an aside to your point about critics, no many of them don't have direct experience as chefs or directors but I'd say nearly all of them (the good ones, at least) would have a very close understanding of the entire scope of pressures and challenges presented to the chefs and directors they criticise. I don't think its particularly important either way and don't challenge the right of a person to comment and criticise something they haven't directly experienced, but I'd contest to say that the best criticism comes from a modicum of trye understanding.
 

benchmark00

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I still think it was really unlikely England would try to chase 300 with overs lost due to the weather, knowing that all they had to do was draw the test to return the urn.
It's not about that though. With really aggressive fields it's safer to play normally than to completely stonewall. You do that then it's easy to picture a start of around 3 and a bit per over for a session. Then it leaves a realistic prospect of chasing the runs without really taking many risks. With 3.5 sessions you don't look to chase from the outset, you just play for a session and see where you're at. If you're 50 after a session then yeah they may abandon any chase but if they get to a decent start it's game on.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Its obvious the uncertain weather favours England and allows them to attack or defend according to whether the weather turns or stays good. As it did in Leeds early last decade. Set only a few less than the current lead Eng chased down a total set by Oz and influenced by the weather forecast. If it rained Eng couldve stonewalled a draw. It didn't so they could chase down the target. Yes Clarke has to be mindful a draw is little use to him. Neither is a loss much good. I think he's done as best he can given the imponderables to be considered.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
It's not about that though. With really aggressive fields it's safer to play normally than to completely stonewall. You do that then it's easy to picture a start of around 3 and a bit per over for a session. Then it leaves a realistic prospect of chasing the runs without really taking many risks. With 3.5 sessions you don't look to chase from the outset, you just play for a session and see where you're at. If you're 50 after a session then yeah they may abandon any chase but if they get to a decent start it's game on.
The counter to this would be that some would advocate the opposition thinking they have a chance because that creates more opportunities than if they were just stonewalling on a flat pitch.

Now I'm not sure I agree with that argument, but the lead has been well over 300 for a long time.

There are very few teams that would chase 300 in 3 sessions on the final day of a test match, let alone this English side who have struggled to score 250 in a day in recent times.
 
Last edited:

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
I think Clarkes error was in thinking this England team and Cook was ever going ton try to win. He put himself in Cooks position and considered what he though he could chase if Australia was batting last. Cook, Root and Trott will just try and bore the game over. Once the lead hit 300 it was even less likely that England would attempt a chase.
 

DingDong

State Captain
i'm not expecting root to score much with warner on the field if clarke is smart he'll put warner right next to root at silly point or something
 

Bushranger

School Boy/Girl Captain
Will we be starting the match 30 minutes early today if its not raining/too dark?
Well as fans we can only hope. Cant believe what happened last night. Take into account England were 15 overs behind of were they should have been. Then bad light (joke) then the rain.
Some English fans making it sound like this is some awesome team but I can tell you we are poor batting wise at the moment but somehow with the Pace attack Australia have the English pitches all became spinning wickets.

Also take into account we lost by 14 runs in the first test and take Broads extra 25 runs he made from Poor Umpiring then Haddin with 14 runs to get be given out without even nicking it behind and nothing on Hotspot yet he was given we would be 1-1 now outplaying them only for Unsportsmanlike Tactics by England and the Rain and without our best bowler in Pattinson. I dont think there as good as they think they are.

Still think DRS is a Joke. Lets only hope we get a result today and not a Drawn match. For a cricket fan who thrives on seeing every ball the fans are getting robbed at the moment I mean were talking the Ashes here its not a Test match against Bangladesh.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Well as fans we can only hope. Cant believe what happened last night. Take into account England were 15 overs behind of were they should have been. Then bad light (joke) then the rain.
Some English fans making it sound like this is some awesome team but I can tell you we are poor batting wise at the moment but somehow with the Pace attack Australia have the English pitches all became spinning wickets.

Also take into account we lost by 14 runs in the first test and take Broads extra 25 runs he made from Poor Umpiring then Haddin with 14 runs to get be given out without even nicking it behind and nothing on Hotspot yet he was given we would be 1-1 now outplaying them only for Unsportsmanlike Tactics by England and the Rain and without our best bowler in Pattinson. I dont think there as good as they think they are.

Still think DRS is a Joke. Lets only hope we get a result today and not a Drawn match. For a cricket fan who thrives on seeing every ball the fans are getting robbed at the moment I mean were talking the Ashes here its not a Test match against Bangladesh.
Welcome to CW. Good to have you around. For too long we have had too many people with one-eyed views so this is refreshing.
 

Swingpanzee

International Regular
1. Take into account England were 15 overs behind of were they should have been. Then bad light (joke) then the rain.
2. Some English fans making it sound like this is some awesome team but I can tell you we are poor batting wise at the moment but somehow with the Pace attack Australia have the English pitches all became spinning wickets.

3. Also take into account we lost by 14 runs in the first test and take Broads extra 25 runs he made from Poor Umpiring then Haddin with 14 runs to get be given out without even nicking it behind and nothing on Hotspot yet he was given we would be 1-1 now outplaying them only for Unsportsmanlike Tactics by England and the Rain and without our best bowler in Pattinson. I dont think there as good as they think they are.
1. You are exaggerating this by far. Granted England were going a bit too slow but then again realistically they'd go nowhere by rushing their overs so it was expected to be honest. The bad light delay was outrageous but in retrospect with the rain appearing just half an hour afterwards play woul have been abandoned after another 5 overs max so at most Australia would have declared and Lyon would have bowled one or two 2 overs. It was already highlighted before the start of play yesterday that rain could spoil it for the Aussies, that's what happened (along with their own weird dismissals). What happened, man, was that your captain Clarke declared too early in the first innings instead of pursuing another 70 runs (which could really have come quick - both Haddin and Starc were looking sharp) which would have added extra pressure on England.

2. There may be fans who lionize England like they are great, and at times I may be guilty of this too. Yet I don't think this England team is at its peak, for they are yet to find the form they donned from 2011 or so. But you've got to admit England has still been pretty damn impressive, beating India in India (which any other top team finds difficult) and drawing a tough series in NZ (especially the last match which was a classic cliffhanger finish). So yes England are flawed but still strong. One can just as much say that you're elevating Aussie ability (with the "we don't have Pattinson" and "our bowling is so cool bro" ****), ironically.

3. You lost by 14 runs in TB just because your team was stupid enough to use **** reviews for clear not outs, thus wasting them which proved to be costly. Your batting also suffered an important mini-collapse on day four (You were 126-3 and ended the day 176-6, which gave England a great chance because otherwise the match would have slipped from their hands most likely). Yes you did show resilience with Agar, Haddin and Pattinson but England did the same with Bell/Broad and had Anderson deliver just when they needed him to.

About the so-called "unfair" decisions, Broad's was a howler but then you guys are responsible for him staying on in a major way, and one can argue that in this test match Smith (who added another 70 runs mate) was plumb out at 20 somethings, and there were dubious decisions re Pietersen and Warner's not out, PLUS the fact you won a good toss and got to bat day 1 on a totally flat pitch.
 

Bushranger

School Boy/Girl Captain
Welcome to CW. Good to have you around. For too long we have had too many people with one-eyed views so this is refreshing.
Im being a little biased YES. But England fans are forgetting some of those keys points. And to fair you have a Batting lineup that is World Class compared to ours.
Cook, Pieterson, Trott, Bell and Root looks also not too bad.

We Have arrrr arrrrr Clarke and when they feel like sometimes Watson and Warner the rest are poor.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Honestly, this is ridiculous. This is a sport. Moderate risks should be allowed. The batsmen should be given the option to carry on in case of bad light. A) They are already padded up from top to bottom, any injury can hardly be threatening. If you are such pussies, they you should go be umpires at a barn dance. Sportsmen everywhere take lots of risks. Why don't we ban the XGames altogether; B) IT'S A SPORT. They want to win. Give them the opportunity. The fielders are not going to get hurt. Who the **** is scared of getting a little hurt when a game is at stake. Umpires, **** you!! And **** Cook. *****. Scared little *****. ​But mummy, I just wanted to keep the Ashes at home.
Account hacked. But this is the probably the most entertaining post made from my account ever :laugh: Damn, this is awesome! Raises my profile on CW at least :D No such thing as bad publicity......
 

Top