*Official* Third Test at Old Trafford

[uvelocity]

addsy is saying its a fact that his good form happened at a point in time. you said it happened due to a change in position. there is no way to prove one or the other although this series could, but you could still say the position suited him but not the point in time.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Happy with the squad, just hope KP is fit.

 

[Philhughesisbes]

hard fast ball and aggressive fields, plus it's a position where a start is of most value to the side, so if he always gets starts then he sort of gets away with not converting (sort of), might just be a mindset thing though.

No! Remember this is international cricket making starts and getting out has never been good enough and guess what it won't ever be good enough at that level.Its more detrimental to the team that he is opening.Look,Warner before his form slump performed better than Watson at the top of the order: he converted most of his starts, scored quickly and demonstrated a greater degree of patients.Not to mention that Warner"s technique is better suited to Watson at the top( something that gets overlook).Warner is the incumbent so if he comes back into the team he bats in his position.We need to stop batting guys in position that's foreign to them.Don"t see why anyone would choose Watson over Warner at the top of the other.Watson for all what persons on here believe doesn"t really have that great a technique for opening , most times he stretches too far foward,so even when the hard ball rise a touch he gets in an awk position and ofcourse not too mention the fact he plays around his pad.Must admit that he scores quickly and puts the bad ball away in style but this is test cricket we need fight(no punt intended), temperament and the ability to convert states at the top, more so now that our middle order is so brittle.

 

[Maximas]

I never said it should be tolerated, I just said opening is the best place to be if you make consistent starts, Ian Chappel is always going on about Ian Redpath for this reason. Warner probably should be a straight swap for Watson, but I honestly want Hughes dropped before him so IMO Watson retains opening spot and Warner moves down to 3, I think he could cope with that better than Watson.

 

[hazsa19]

Still don't really see what Tremlett has done to get his place back yet, it seems too soon. Onions royally shafted etc.

I know it's only Twenty20, but I saw him bowl at Lords on Thursday. He looked fast, aggressive, and accurate. If he can keep that up for 7 over spells over a day then he would be a real handful at Old Trafford.

 

[the big bambino]

addsy is saying its a fact that his good form happened at a point in time. you said it happened due to a change in position. there is no way to prove one or the other although this series could, but you could still say the position suited him but not the point in time.

I'm aware a man can't bat 2 places at the same time. There is a choice btwn the 2 places and a decn favouring one of them. I prefer guidance from Watson's record (which does have data comparing his record at both positions in the batting order) opposed to speculation as to what he might have done. (Hell maybe Hayden would have made as many as a 6 instead of an opener but we'll never know). That is my opinion. It may be wrong. But it isn't ridiculous or even an assertion. Its based on facts.

 

[uvelocity]

you can have the opinion but you can't say its indisputable because the same guidance you are taking compares watsons record from different points in time

No! Remember this is international cricket making starts and getting out has never been good enough and guess what it won't ever be good enough at that level.Its more detrimental to the team that he is opening.Look,Warner before his form slump performed better than Watson at the top of the order: he converted most of his starts, scored quickly and demonstrated a greater degree of patients.Not to mention that Warner"s technique is better suited to Watson at the top( something that gets overlook).Warner is the incumbent so if he comes back into the team he bats in his position.We need to stop batting guys in position that's foreign to them.Don"t see why anyone would choose Watson over Warner at the top of the other.Watson for all what persons on here believe doesn"t really have that great a technique for opening , most times he stretches too far foward,so even when the hard ball rise a touch he gets in an awk position and ofcourse not too mention the fact he plays around his pad.Must admit that he scores quickly and puts the bad ball away in style but this is test cricket we need fight(no punt intended), temperament and the ability to convert states at the top, more so now that our middle order is so brittle.

only one tbf

 

[Adders]

I'm aware a man can't bat 2 places at the same time. There is a choice btwn the 2 places and a decn favouring one of them. I prefer guidance from Watson's record (which does have data comparing his record at both positions in the batting order) opposed to speculation as to what he might have done. (Hell maybe Hayden would have made as many as a 6 instead of an opener but we'll never know). That is my opinion. It may be wrong. But it isn't ridiculous or even an assertion. Its based on facts.

Hayden was an opener through and through, never played anywhere else and that is what he was born to do.

Watson was never an opener, he got chucked in there in desperation, did OK and a short term fix lasted for nearly 4 years. You're right, neither of us can say whether his better stats opening are down to form at a given time or the position......it is all speculation.

But, you can look at his average of 40 odd opening and say yeah that's OK....but If you look at the last 2 years then we both know it is not OK.......and not by a long shot. I think he only has value to your side if he is bowling, if he is bowling he shouldn't be opening the batting, Twatto himself has admitted to struggling to tune from one skill to the other so quickly. Then you add in his failure to go on with an innings and that is another strike against opening and I still maintain a flashy 30 or 40 is of more worth (or at least more acceptable) from your No6 than it is your opening bat.

 

[Philhughesisbes]

I'm aware a man can't bat 2 places at the same time. There is a choice btwn the 2 places and a decn favouring one of them. I prefer guidance from Watson's record (which does have data comparing his record at both positions in the batting order) opposed to speculation as to what he might have done. (Hell maybe Hayden would have made as many as a 6 instead of an opener but we'll never know). That is my opinion. It may be wrong. But it isn't ridiculous or even an assertion. Its ased on facts.[/QUOTE

If Watson and Rogers open,does that mean there is no room for Warner.Surely selectors cant bat Warner anywhere but opening.Would be crazy stuff if they bat Warner at 4.I"d imagine khawaja will play the 3rd test, Hughes also as he played really. Well in the first innings of the first test.Reckon Smith may get the sack, then again a second spinner might be needed at that ground.Khawaja or Hughes might be the sacrificial lambs, wrongly imo.

 

[Jarquis]

Lyon in for Agar is pretty much confirmed then you'd think?

 

[Maximas]

Lyon in for Agar is pretty much confirmed then you'd think?

neither bowling particularly well at the Hove, still likely IMO, but I'm not completely sure.

 

[Jarquis]

At least Lyon is bowling.

 

[BoyBrumby]

0/80-odd last time I looked; not the most convincing audition. FC average nearing that glourious 40 mark. #betterthanswann #lastyearsmemes

I think Monty and Tremmers are both slightly horses-for-courses styley picks, myself.

OT's extra bounce likely to suit both. The big fella in for Bres wouldn't be the worst shout, harsh as it would be on the other Tim.

 

[Maximas]

0/80-odd last time I looked; not the most convincing audition. FC average nearing that glourious 40 mark. #betterthanswann #lastyearsmemes

I think Monty and Tremmers are both slightly horses-for-courses styley picks, myself.

OT's extra bounce likely to suit both. The big fella in for Bres wouldn't be the worst shout, harsh as it would be on the other Tim.

I don't understand why you would change a team that won so convincingly at Lords tbh, even if there are potentially better picks.

 

[Howe_zat]

Well they haven't picked Monty as a sub fielder. They're no doubt expecting OT to be dry as a bone.

I'd only think about changing the team if it were to play five bowlers, me. That won't happen ofc.

 

[superkingdave]

Will spew if they pick Monty

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't understand why you would change a team that won so convincingly at Lords tbh, even if there are potentially better picks.

Think it was Bill Shankly (uber genius erstwhile Liverpool manager, for non-UK, footy-challenged readers) who said the best time to change a team is after a win.

Flower has showed this kind of ruthlessness before; England smashed your chaps by an innings at Adelaide in 2010/11 and Finn's reward was the arse for Perth.

Now the fact England lost in WA is the slight wrinkle here, but Finn's replacement (Tremmers, as it happens) did take a first innings Michelle and eight for the match. Not his fault the batsmen went missing/the planets aligned and Johnson had his bi-annual inexplicable genius game (delete according to taste/national bias).

 

[Spikey]

finn played in perth. broad was injured and went out of the team for trem

 

[Riggins]

yeah i played with a guy who always said that if he wanted to change something about his bowling action, he would do it when he was bowling well. rationale was that if they're coming out well, you'll be able to tell if the change is going to work. if you try it when you're already bowling badly, you don't know if it actually doesn't work or you're just bowling ****.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Think it was Bill Shankly (uber genius erstwhile Liverpool manager, for non-UK, footy-challenged readers) who said the best time to change a team is after a win.

Flower has showed this kind of ruthlessness before; England smashed your chaps by an innings at Adelaide in 2010/11 and Finn's reward was the arse for Perth.

Now the fact England lost in WA is the slight wrinkle here, but Finn's replacement (Tremmers, as it happens) did take a first innings Michelle and eight for the match. Not his fault the batsmen went missing/the planets aligned and Johnson had his bi-annual inexplicable genius game (delete according to taste/national bias).

Finn got dropped after Perth.