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Does anyone think Australia's situation is not actually that dire?

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Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
they only started in the middle of the last summer. lowering the quality of the shield and 2nd XI by force feeding young players into the system will remain a popular "that's where it went wrong" suggestion btw. really i think the main impact 'result' pitches have is just that those matches are effectively useless when it comes to Australian selection, and with only 6 teams/10 shield rounds a player can't really afford too much totally devalued matches in a season
Didn't CA issue an edict some time ago that the pitches should become more "sporting" to prepare batsmen for swing and seam bowling in tests?

I know that they worded it "test like conditions" but the result was greener decks
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Didn't CA issue an edict some time ago that the pitches should become more "sporting" to prepare batsmen for swing and seam bowling in tests?

I know that they worded it "test like conditions" but the result was greener decks
I understand the reason but it didn't work. Batsmen develop techniques on good pitches. The sort of swing wrecking Australia has usually been the reverse kind on good test wickets. We need to replicate the bowling and batting skills that succeed on those wickets. Of course that can only happen if those wickets are provided in the 1st place.
 

Top_Cat

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they only started in the middle of the last summer. lowering the quality of the shield and 2nd XI by force feeding young players into the system will remain a popular "that's where it went wrong" suggestion btw. really i think the main impact 'result' pitches have is just that those matches are effectively useless when it comes to Australian selection, and with only 6 teams/10 shield rounds a player can't really afford too much totally devalued matches in a season
Promoting a bunch of young bats ahead of time into 2nd XI means we've seen a generation of bats who haven't earned their spots in relatively soft competitions from U/19 onward and we're reaping that now. Chappell's solution? "The failures show, if anything, we need moar youth!". Take a wild stab in the dark which player he's been pissing in every state selector and coachs' ears about since said player was still in high school.

Nothing will change whilst he has influence in Aussie cricket.
 
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Daemon

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one of my favourite articles on cricinfo. posted it earlier in the cricinfo bashing thread too.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Promoting a bunch of young bats ahead of time into 2nd XI means we've seen a generation of bats who haven't earned their spots in relatively soft competitions from U/19 onward and we're reaping that now. Chappell's solution? "The failures show, if anything, we need moar youth!". Take a wild stab in the dark which player he's been pissing in every state selector and coachs' ears about since said player was still in high school.

Nothing will change whilst he has influence in Aussie cricket.
Tbf, that has been happening forever.

Years ago, an ordinary 2nd grader from our club was picked for the Oz under 19 team.

Upon his return, the club felt obliged to pick him in first grade (under the requisite pressure from the state association)

He batted 7/8, bowled a few overs and we had never seen so many state selectors at our matches

Guy ended up playing test cricket before he was the best player at his club
 
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Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
The biggest problem Australia faces right now is actually identifying the correct big issues. I'm reminded of Ed Smith's article earlier this year: Ed Smith on the perils of manipulating causes to fit outcomes | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

btw ed smitteh i do think the shield is too small. bring in the act already
Hmm..That is a poorly written article. The underlying premise may be correct but the writing is shallow and doesn't exactly portray a deep understanding of the nuances. It has the depth of a school book report.

"This dismal sequence was, apparently, "caused" by the following factors: structure of county cricket...sticking with a failing core of senior players for too long, introducing too many new players, being insufficiently hard-working and professional, being insufficiently joyful and amateur ..."

All those things could possibly be correct, they may not be but that isnt the point. The fact is they are not contradictory. You can stick with a failing core of players while introducing too many new players. A team can be insufficiently hardworking while at other times being insufficiently joyful, it depends on the right outlook at the right time and context. Without looking deeper into it, we dont know one way or the other. What we do know is that applying flawed logic doesnt help anyone.

And as for "The same "cause" had been invoked to "explain" two opposite effects, which is, obviously, logically impossible." I have never heard such tosh. The same cause can frequently have opposite effects when the effects are separated by a period of time. We see it all the time. Do we often frequently falsely attribute causes to effects? Of course we do but that fact carries no weight unless we can show specifically why a certain causes and effects are inaccurately partnered. This article is long on fluff and short on anything interesting, including evidence.

The discussion isnt without merit and I agree with the basic premise - It is an area I have a great interest in. However, these type of articles dont help anyone as they are flawed and do disservice to good work in this area.
 
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Spikey

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Theo has a chip on his shoulder imo

Theo Doropoulos ‏@TheoDrop 15m
It's incredibly naive to blame the state of the Australian Test team on the global and domestic evolution of T20 cricket.

Theo Doropoulos ‏@TheoDrop 14m
The spotlight should be on why the 2nd tier of state cricket was reduced to a glorified junior carnival at the expense of older players.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Tbf, that has been happening forever.

Years ago, an ordinary 2nd grader from our club was picked for the Oz under 19 team.

Upon his return, the club felt obliged to pick him in first grade (under the requisite pressure from the state association)

He batted 7/8, bowled a few overs and we had never seen so many state selectors at our matches

Guy ended up playing test cricket before he was the best player at his club
does he have a name?
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Tbf, that has been happening forever.

Years ago, an ordinary 2nd grader from our club was picked for the Oz under 19 team.

Upon his return, the club felt obliged to pick him in first grade (under the requisite pressure from the state association)

He batted 7/8, bowled a few overs and we had never seen so many state selectors at our matches

Guy ended up playing test cricket before he was the best player at his club
What club were you playing for at the time?
 

Top_Cat

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oh, watto?
Yeah.

Tbf, that has been happening forever.

Years ago, an ordinary 2nd grader from our club was picked for the Oz under 19 team.

Upon his return, the club felt obliged to pick him in first grade (under the requisite pressure from the state association)

He batted 7/8, bowled a few overs and we had never seen so many state selectors at our matches

Guy ended up playing test cricket before he was the best player at his club
Peter Taylor?

Theo has a chip on his shoulder imo

Theo Doropoulos ‏@TheoDrop 15m
It's incredibly naive to blame the state of the Australian Test team on the global and domestic evolution of T20 cricket.

Theo Doropoulos ‏@TheoDrop 14m
The spotlight should be on why the 2nd tier of state cricket was reduced to a glorified junior carnival at the expense of older players.
Well, if anyone would know lots about playing of 2nd-tier state cricket....
 

Spikey

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i did get the impression reading greg chappell's latests thoughts that he thinks the U19 champs are more important and/or of a higher quality than 2nd XI cricket
 

Ruckus

International Captain
Hmm..That is a poorly written article. The underlying premise may be correct but the writing is shallow and doesn't exactly portray a deep understanding of the nuances. It has the depth of a school book report.

"This dismal sequence was, apparently, "caused" by the following factors: structure of county cricket...sticking with a failing core of senior players for too long, introducing too many new players, being insufficiently hard-working and professional, being insufficiently joyful and amateur ..."

All those things could possibly be correct, they may not be but that isnt the point. The fact is they are not contradictory. You can stick with a failing core of players while introducing too many new players. A team can be insufficiently hardworking while at other times being insufficiently joyful, it depends on the right outlook at the right time and context. Without looking deeper into it, we dont know one way or the other. What we do know is that applying flawed logic doesnt help anyone.

And as for "The same "cause" had been invoked to "explain" two opposite effects, which is, obviously, logically impossible." I have never heard such tosh. The same cause can frequently have opposite effects when the effects are separated by a period of time. We see it all the time. Do we often frequently falsely attribute causes to effects? Of course we do but that fact carries no weight unless we can show specifically why a certain causes and effects are inaccurately partnered. This article is long on fluff and short on anything interesting, including evidence.

The discussion isnt without merit and I agree with the basic premise - It is an area I have a great interest in. However, these type of articles dont help anyone as they are flawed and do disservice to good work in this area.
yeah gotta agree with most of this. Not a big fan of 'intellectual' analysis when applied to something like cricket...it all just starts getting overly theoretical and wish-washy. Common sense, and not much more, is really all that is deserves.
 
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Spikey

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yeah gotta agree with most of this. Not a big fan of 'intellectual' analysis when applied to something like cricket...it all just starts getting overly theoretical and wish-washy. Common sense, and not much more, is really all that is deserves.

I mean, he's basically saying common sense should be applied. Don't blame this, this and that when maybe the reason you are losing is simply because your best team and tactics just aren't good enough
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
certain factors can cause players to not perform at their best though, this is where causes are important, it's too complicated though.
 

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