'Ball of the Century'

[Viscount Tom]

All this arguing is pointless, real greatest ball of all time is Jade Dernbach's slower ball.

Which one he's got about 40 odd variations of it.

 

[Dan]

Look you seem so intent on proving that Gatting wasn't a good player of spin, so would you pleae explain how a better player would have played that delivery? what would say Dravid have done differently

It doesn't matter if Gatting could play spin that anyway, it doesn't magically devalue what came from Warne's hand.
Shades of Trueman:
"That was a good ball sir"
"Aye, wasted on you"

 

[the big bambino]

Murali doesn't have to win every comparrison.

Every comparison? I can't think of a circumstance where I'd pick him at all over Warne. Well maybe versus India...in Sri Lanka; even then only just. So long as he had Mendis bowling at the other end bamboozling the batsmen so they are forced to be careless with Murali.

 

[kyear2]

That isn't a fair statement either.

 

[the big bambino]

@Gatting averaged 55 against likes of Doshi, Venkat and few other second line spinners. Against Kumble he was piss poor. So was he against Warnaweera and Murali. He may have been passed his best, but all these three spinners produced things that were unorthodox for the time. It was not just doing bad against them, he was absolutely clueless against them makes anyone wonder what he would have scored even at his pomp against these bowlers. And not to mention that Murali and Kumble were just beginning their trade with hardly any tricks up there sleeve. Against a Kumble and Murali at their peaks, best of Gatting would have been cannon fodder given the ineptness he showed playing these two great spinners.

And incidentally, this is the same old Gatting in his waning powers who played the so called "ball of the century". Gatting must have suddenely become younger during the ashes.

You like to argue opposites when it suits. The total tests Gatting played against Warnaweera and Kumble is 4. FOUR. Apparently not enough to make a definitive assessment of say Barry Richards but contradictorally enough to condemn Gatting's reputation against spin. Despite what he achieved in the bulk of his career.

That is called cherry picking. But its not even good cherry picking. I can only find 3 tests Gatting played against India. He averaged 36, all in India. Not bad considering the difficulty many players have had over the years with spin on the sub con. Not once did Kumble get his wicket. Even his poor ODI form in the same year was down to Srinath getting him not Kumble.

It is fair to speculate greatness in a player if circumstances hadn't deprived him of the opportunity to play more tests. It is grossly unfair to portray a man as incompetent on the back of 4 cherry picked tests in isolation of his entire career. You arent in the 1st instance but do so in the 2nd: In contradiction of yourself and in prejudice of others.

 

[hendrix]

Every comparison? I can't think of a circumstance where I'd pick him at all over Warne. Well maybe versus India...in Sri Lanka; even then only just. So long as he had Mendis bowling at the other end bamboozling the batsmen so they are forced to be careless with Murali.

I'm not sure what to say to this. You are aware of when Mendis debuted, I assume?

 

[the big bambino]

Assuming we are talking about the same Mendis (after all...Sri Lanka) then yep.

Why?

 

[akilana]

Every comparison? I can't think of a circumstance where I'd pick him at all over Warne. Well maybe versus India...in Sri Lanka; even then only just. So long as he had Mendis bowling at the other end bamboozling the batsmen so they are forced to be careless with Murali.

Ignorance is bliss. Murali has bowled better than Warne in many countries.

 

[Maximas]

Every comparison? I can't think of a circumstance where I'd pick him at all over Warne. Well maybe versus India...in Sri Lanka; even then only just. So long as he had Mendis bowling at the other end bamboozling the batsmen so they are forced to be careless with Murali.

Pretty much the same deal Warne had with McGrath in his career, McGrath would tie them down and force the batsmen to unwittingly vent their frustration on Warne - which often brought about their downfall. Murali rarely had spin support as good as McGill and he never had a pace attack like the Aussies to work with, although Vaas was handy.

 

[the big bambino]

No support never worried Hadlee.

 

[Maximas]

No support never worried Hadlee.

This isn't an ATG thread, I don't know what Hadlee has to do with what we are talking about.

 

[hendrix]

No support never worried Hadlee.

...and evidently it never worried Murali either?

Seems rather strange to bring up Mendis when they played, what 5 tests together? (I don't actually know, but it can't have been many).

Did Murali become the highest wicket taker before or after Mendis debuted?

 

[wpdavid]

You like to argue opposites when it suits. The total tests Gatting played against Warnaweera and Kumble is 4. FOUR. Apparently not enough to make a definitive assessment of say Barry Richards but contradictorally enough to condemn Gatting's reputation against spin. Despite what he achieved in the bulk of his career.

That is called cherry picking. But its not even good cherry picking. I can only find 3 tests Gatting played against India. He averaged 36, all in India. Not bad considering the difficulty many players have had over the years with spin on the sub con. Not once did Kumble get his wicket. Even his poor ODI form in the same year was down to Srinath getting him not Kumble.

It is fair to speculate greatness in a player if circumstances hadn't deprived him of the opportunity to play more tests. It is grossly unfair to portray a man as incompetent on the back of 4 cherry picked tests in isolation of his entire career. You arent in the 1st instance but do so in the 2nd: In contradiction of yourself and in prejudice of others.

All true. fwiw Gatting also played 5 tests in India in the 1984/85 series.

I cba to check his average for that series, but iirc he made two hundreds, one of the a double, so I suspect it wasn't too shabby.

 

[the big bambino]

This isn't an ATG thread, I don't know what Hadlee has to do with what we are talking about.

Well this is strange. You appeared to know what I was talking about when I mentioned the hot house circumstances when Murali succeeded against India. You even quoted my post in a reply stating how fortunate Warne was to have McGrath and McGill to assist him. I responded it isn't always necessary to have support giving Hadlee as acounter example to the point you raised and now fail to understand.

Thanks for the journey though. None of it forces to change the perception that I'd take Warne in almost all circumstances except the one I initially mentioned.

 

[Maximas]

Well this is strange. You appeared to know what I was talking about when I mentioned the hot house circumstances when Murali succeeded against India. You even quoted my post in a reply stating how fortunate Warne was to have McGrath and McGill to assist him. I responded it isn't always necessary to have support giving Hadlee as acounter example to the point you raised and now fail to understand.

Thanks for the journey though. None of it forces to change the perception that I'd take Warne in almost all circumstances except the one I initially mentioned.

I was basically saying that Hadlee had nothing to do with what we were meant to be talking about in this thread, if you want a Murali vs Warne debate, I'm happy to have it with you somewhere else. I get what you were saying, but we can't have this argument here.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don't know about anyone else but to me a spinning delivery can never be 'the ball of the century'.

??

I'm not sure of your reasoning behind this statement, but bowling legspin is the hardest art in the game to master.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Pretty much the same deal Warne had with McGrath in his career, McGrath would tie them down and force the batsmen to unwittingly vent their frustration on Warne - which often brought about their downfall. Murali rarely had spin support as good as McGill and he never had a pace attack like the Aussies to work with, although Vaas was handy.

Yeah, I regularly remember batsmen taking Warne on because McGrath was tying them down at the other end...instead of being glued to the crease trying to survive,

 

[Furball]

Ignorance is bliss. Murali has bowled better than Warne in many countries.

Nobody cares.

 

[smash84]

Nobody cares.

wrong as usual