wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Is it not possible to make a slight critique about a player just because they scored a century?
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***Official*** New Zealand in England series 2013
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
Interestingly, that is what PEWS' crush-... I mean Mathew Sinclair had to say on Radio Sport yesterday, in a loose sense. Reckons the team may have evolved past him.
KungFu_Kallis
International 12th Man
Matthew Sinclair having a go at Vettori... probably not besties with Dan and thought that was the reason he weren't being picked when Dan was captain 
Raghav
International Vice-Captain
yeah.. love that from Sinclair! He is right in some senseMatthew Sinclair having a go at Vettori... probably not besties with Dan and thought that was the reason he weren't being picked when Dan was captain
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Nah, Southee's test bowling was basically never good prior to his return to the side v WI last year. He had a couple of good days in his first year in the side (his debut, and his 3rd test v Australia), but in both of those matches he followed strong first innings efforts with scattergun second innings shows. His late swing from an awkward height could trouble good batsman, be he lacked the necessary control to produce good numbers consistently, and generally bowled rubbish. It is true that he probably got worse in the 2009/10 period when he seemed to be generating less swing and that might owe in part to a focus on death bowling in ODI and T20 cricket. But Southee wasn't really a good limited overs bowler during this period. He was averaging low to mid 30's in ODI's, which is more "not terrible" than "good". His real problems remained the same throughout this period - a tendancy to bowl a lot of leg side filth and wide half volleys.
Things only clicked for him in ODI's in 2010/11 (although that was a bit of a false dawn, as he regressed to bowling pies v AUS and SA the following summer).
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NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Oh you can critique, sure. No player is infallible. But I'd be looking at Cook & Bell, who have similar strike rates and lesser averages, and the rest of the batting order before blaming the guy with the 4th best ODI average ever.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
I don't think that it's Trott's fault that they lost. I think that once Trott was pretty clearly the only established batsman left he didn't seem to take on responsibility to try to get the 10rpo that they needed. He just seemed happy to take the N.O rather than chance his arm and maybe pull off a fluke victory.
Make no mistake though, the game wasn't lost by him.
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NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Wasn't saying that you said it was fault, but talking generally and he seems to get most of the blame when things go wrong batting-wise though. So yeah, he's not a finisher and maybe he can't step up a gear every time he's in that situation. There are other batsmen in the side, though. One of Root or Morgan should open, really. Seems like England is putting a lot of faith into Buttler firing at some point, given his pretty phenomenal stats in List A. Very fragile lower order.
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
Bring back Monty. At least you get 10 overs of spin against Guptill.
None of your bits-and-pieces bois are up to scratch, so you might as well.
Also, please deport Trott before the Ashes, since he's clearly just another selfish yarp putting the red ink before the three lions.
None of your bits-and-pieces bois are up to scratch, so you might as well.
Also, please deport Trott before the Ashes, since he's clearly just another selfish yarp putting the red ink before the three lions.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I wrote a long answer but this has been thrashed about enough. The only new thing I said is that I think he should open with the advent of two new balls and not having power hitters at the top any more. Then run a ball 100s will be more suited the stage of the game he is batting in and no one would complain about him not slogging at the end of the game.
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King Pietersen
International Captain
Monty? Tredwell surely? Much better LO bowler, and never lets England down when he's given a chance.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, I'm not actually against having another spinner in the side when the seam-bowling options are so rank, but not Monty. Doesn't even play limited overs for Sussex, Nash and Yardy bowl there. Also having a bloody shocking season all-round on the quiet.
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Hmmm, think after this last one dayer I'm going to have to revise my opinion of Englands top order.
I was of the belief that Cook, Bell and Trott would do well in the early England summer with 2 new balls. Figured it was the right move to play "proper batsmen" for this series and the CT, understanding that whilst they may struggle on good batting decks in the sub cont for eg, they wouldn't have to set or chase big totals and step up to 100+ strike rates. Someone forgot to tell the Kiwis you're not meant to score 350 in England!!
Clearly without KP our top order doesn't have the required fire power but I don't think we can afford to have him come back in at 4. One of the 1st 3 has to go IMO, and I'm sure much to Burgey's amusement it has to be Bell.
I was of the belief that Cook, Bell and Trott would do well in the early England summer with 2 new balls. Figured it was the right move to play "proper batsmen" for this series and the CT, understanding that whilst they may struggle on good batting decks in the sub cont for eg, they wouldn't have to set or chase big totals and step up to 100+ strike rates. Someone forgot to tell the Kiwis you're not meant to score 350 in England!!
Clearly without KP our top order doesn't have the required fire power but I don't think we can afford to have him come back in at 4. One of the 1st 3 has to go IMO, and I'm sure much to Burgey's amusement it has to be Bell.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not sure it's changed anything, KPs only good limited-overs form over the last few years as been as opener, it's where he should play.
and yes Bell shouldn't be in the side.
Days of Grace
International Captain
No one should complain about a run-a-ball 100. Ever.
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Even though I think KP should come in for Bell, it's still pretty tough on him. Since he started opening at the start of 2012 he's scored 958 runs at 50.42, hard to drop a bloke with those returns.
It's a dilemma, can't drop Cook, Trott's ODI career average is ridiculously good (as is his current form) and Bell as above........but a top 3 of them is not likely to see us post 300+ scores very often.
I didn't watch the game the other night, clearly any bowling attack with Dernbach in it is rubbish........but was our bowling responsible for the 80 odd runs we were short?? Surely 350 must have been way above par for the wicket?? In case you don't realise I'm trying to convince myself that our top order is fine and they wont be chasing scores like this in the CT if we can put a decent attack on the park. Am I deluded???
It's a dilemma, can't drop Cook, Trott's ODI career average is ridiculously good (as is his current form) and Bell as above........but a top 3 of them is not likely to see us post 300+ scores very often.
I didn't watch the game the other night, clearly any bowling attack with Dernbach in it is rubbish........but was our bowling responsible for the 80 odd runs we were short?? Surely 350 must have been way above par for the wicket?? In case you don't realise I'm trying to convince myself that our top order is fine and they wont be chasing scores like this in the CT if we can put a decent attack on the park. Am I deluded???
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
What if your chasing 430?
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Blame your bowlers.
King Pietersen
International Captain
One question I've got, is how the hell has Bopara made it into this squad and the CT squad? I'm probably as big a fan of Ravi as anyone, but seriously, what is he doing in the squad? He's having a miserable season, and has continued to disappoint whenever he's played for England. Surely it's time to move on from Bopara until he starts to blitz runs in county cricket, Compton style. Surely there's someone in county cricket more capable than Ravi?
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
You adapt to the game situation at hand. Sometimes more than a run-a-ball is called for.