***Official*** New Zealand in England series 2013

[Bahnz]

Yeah I'd agree Eeyore was feeling his oats a bit there, I want him betting his entire winnings on a Guptill <30 when it appears.

Gah, if only I'd listened. My normal inclination is to bet on Guptill scoring <25 whenever he has the undeserved fortune to play a test match innings too. But I was asleep on both occassions when he came to the wicket.

Seriously, Guptill now averages 24 from 28 test matches (excl zimbang). Even amongst New Zealand cricketers, has any batsman in recent history had such a prolonged run in the side, with so little success?

 

[straw man]

Gah, if only I'd listened. My normal inclination is to bet on Guptill scoring <25 whenever he has the undeserved fortune to play a test match innings too. But I was asleep on both occassions when he came to the wicket.

Seriously, Guptill now averages 24 from 28 test matches (excl zimbang). Even amongst New Zealand cricketers, has any batsman in recent history had such a prolonged run in the side, with so little success?

Ooh I'll play:
Daniel Flynn - 24.6 from 22 test matches (excl zimbang though it's not really justified in his case).

So in the battle of the struggling middle order batsmen, Dean Brownlie is the winner with a stirling 23 as Guptill scores a double self-knockout.

 

[straw man]

Very disappointing for Taylor to get out like that right at the end - I've watched it a few times and I don't know how he missed it, even if it was a bit of a lazy shot.

That's the difference between a probable half hour to dismiss us tomorrow and a potential 2 hours, which might be enough to save the match.

 

[_Ed_]

Sigh.

Deep down I knew we wouldn't be 220-3 when I checked the score this morning. But it's still disappointing.

 

[Jono]

Not too fussed really what happens now. We have played well in this match and if we win great, if it is rained off it doesn't really matter as we won the series anyway. Bring on the crims.

Surely you will be slightly annoyed at Cook's declaration? Surely?

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, I've only seen it once, but it looked like Taylor was just slow on a loopy low full toss. Still don't think his head is really in it yet. Here's hoping some runs in Bangladesh will kickstart him getting back to his best.

Hmm, Flynn v Guptill is an interesting battle, with Flynn having a marginally better record from half a dozen fewer matches. Though I suppose with Flynn the selectors at least have the excuse that he was tried in 2008, dropped in 2009, then went back to domestix for a couple of seasons and made plenty of runs before being given a second go in 2012. Guptill, on the other hand, has basically been a regular in the team for four years, despite making so few runs. Has only missed selection in two matches while he's been fit iirc (once against India in 2010 and again at Lord's last week).

 

[straw man]

True, though Guptill has faced a lot less competition for his spot than Flynn, by virtue of opening the batting. He's retained his place in the side by default.

Not that I think Flynn was given too long to prove himself second time round - 8 matches is probably about right and I was in favour of a couple more.

You're probably right that Taylor's mindset is still not 100%, but not-100% Taylor is still easily our highest scorer of the series with 142 at 35.5, and the two innings where he didn't score we were rolled very cheaply. Wagner has the second highest batting average with 50 at 25. That says it all about the rest of our batting

 

[Bahnz]

What's the drainage like at Leeds? The weather forecast suggests there'll be rain in the morning, but that things will clear up in the afternoon. If England can get an hour of play you'd have to back them to wrap this up.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, I've only seen it once, but it looked like Taylor was just slow on a loopy low full toss. Still don't think his head is really in it yet. Here's hoping some runs in Bangladesh will kickstart him getting back to his best.

Hmm, Flynn v Guptill is an interesting battle, with Flynn having a marginally better record from half a dozen fewer matches. Though I suppose with Flynn the selectors at least have the excuse that he was tried in 2008, dropped in 2009, then went back to domestix for a couple of seasons and made plenty of runs before being given a second go in 2012. Guptill, on the other hand, has basically been a regular in the team for four years, despite making so few runs. Has only missed selection in two matches while he's been fit iirc (once against India in 2010 and again at Lord's last week).

I definitely think Flynn is more worth a go than Guptill at this stage, especially if it's for a middle order spot. Ronchi would've actually be my reserve batsman on tour though which is makes it all the more hilarious that it was Watling who got injured.

 

[Flem274*]

Flynn and Guptill are opposites. One can play lots of shots on the front foot but doesn't have the defense to stay in, and the other has a sound defensive technique but has no front foot shots to score any runs with.

Guptill is also terrible on the back foot in general and Flynn would be happy to camp out all day there.

 

[Days of Grace]

Well, with the nature of our batting as it is at the moment, I'd take Flynn.

Batting lineup really screaming out for Ryder, tbh. Brownlee has flattered to deceive.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Will they ever give Neil Broom a shot in the whites? Should be able to do as well as Guptill/Flynn and at least it would give the commentators a pun to use whenever he played the sweep shot

 

[Mike5181]

Will they ever give Neil Broom a shot in the whites? Should be able to do as well as Guptill/Flynn and at least it would give the commentators a pun to use whenever he played the sweep shot

Both Ronchi and Broom should have been ahead of Guptill. I've been going on about Broom in particular for ages. At the moment, I'd personally probably go with Ronchi first but really Broom should have played a few tests by now anyway.

 

[Bahnz]

Both Ronchi and Broom should have been ahead of Guptill. I've been going on about Broom in particular for ages. At the moment, I'd personally probably go with Ronchi first but really Broom should have played a few tests by now anyway.

While I'd agree that just about anyone deserves a place in the side ahead of Guptill, Broom hasn't really helped himself with his form in Plunket Shield cricket in the last couple of seasons. He was OK last year (3 hundreds and an average of 44), but competition for those middle-order spots is fiercer than for the opening positions. It's hard to make a strong case for Broom's inclusion when he was only the 15th highest run scorer last season. Didn't help that he failed to really set the world on fire v India A either.

 

[Mike5181]

While I'd agree that just about anyone deserves a place in the side ahead of Guptill, Broom hasn't really helped himself with his form in Plunket Shield cricket in the last couple of seasons. He was OK last year (3 hundreds and an average of 44), but competition for those middle-order spots is fiercer than for the opening positions. It's hard to make a strong case for Broom's inclusion when he was only the 15th highest run scorer last season. Didn't help that he failed to really set the world on fire v India A either.

His 2011/12 season average of just 24 ****ed things up for him. He would have got pretty close with his last three season averages before that being 50, 68 and 50. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play a test match, at least for a couple of years. Ryder will most likely return to the side later this year or early next year and he's never going to replace the golden boy Williamson or Ross Taylor.

 

[the big bambino]

Rutherford one end, Fulton the other. Baz is half decent but he's got the gloves.

Doesn't matter. He's not getting it past anyone anyway.

 

[social]

I definitely think Flynn is more worth a go than Guptill at this stage, especially if it's for a middle order spot. Ronchi would've actually be my reserve batsman on tour though which is makes it all the more hilarious that it was Watling who got injured.

Pretty sorry indictment of NZ's batting depth that Ronchi should really come into consideration as a batsman - has lots of talent but is an all or nothing merchant and I don't think it's unfair to rate him as nothing more than a pretty good bat for a keeper

 

[Bahnz]

Pretty sorry indictment of NZ's batting depth that Ronchi should really come into consideration as a batsman - has lots of talent but is an all or nothing merchant and I don't think it's unfair to rate him as nothing more than a pretty good bat for a keeper

Yeah well, Ryder cbf playing properly and the rest of the top run scorers in the PS are either too old or too young.

 

[hendrix]

honestly Ronchi is nothing to get excited about with the bat.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

yeah but martin guptill