New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Kippax]

5/6 months until the Bangladesh tour is sufficient time for mine. South Africa was a tough reintroduction to cricket last time, sure, and his other problems are well-known. But if he's not raring to go by November/December at 29 years of age, he'll never be.

He can give us some convincing front-foot play and play out Andrew Ellis and Blair Soper without being done for a month before he's thrown a test cap. That's what we hoped the second half of 2012/13 was for, but instead Wellington were issuing him with a final warning.

Telling him he's wanted for that Indian A tour in September before he commits to any Caribbean T20 might be an ideal litmus.

 

[Jezroy]

Sigh, in spite of all the doom and gloom, after 9 months of fairly regular test cricket it sure is going to be hard to have to wait 5 months before our next test series.

I think that test series against Bangladesh could actually be rather interesting - especially if we have another subcontinent spin fail.

 

[Jezroy]

He can give us some convincing front-foot play and play out Andrew Ellis and Blair Soper without being done for a month before he's thrown a test cap. That's what we hoped the second half of 2012/13 was for, but instead Wellington were issuing him with a final warning.

Telling him he's wanted for that Indian A tour in September before he commits to any Caribbean T20 might be an ideal litmus.

He should sooooooooo go on the Indian A tour. Indian bowlers are his bitches.

 

[Jezroy]

Looks pretty reliable to me:

Start of the series will be on October 8,

New Zealand will play Two Test, Three ODIs & One T20 match against Bangladesh.

Cricket Schedule for Bangladesh in the Year 2013 | News on Cricket

 

[Bahnz]

I think that test series against Bangladesh could actually be rather interesting - especially if we have another subcontinent spin fail.

Yeah, but again it's five months from now. No matter how glum we are about Sunday's result, I think we can all agree that New Zealand are a much better side now than when I started this thread. I don't think it's a coincidence that that improvement has come during a period when New Zealand has had it's most intense burst of test cricket at any time in the last decade (13 tests in 9 months).

 

[Mike5181]

He can give us some convincing front-foot play and play out Andrew Ellis and Blair Soper without being done for a month before he's thrown a test cap. That's what we hoped the second half of 2012/13 was for, but instead Wellington were issuing him with a final warning.

Telling him he's wanted for that Indian A tour in September before he commits to any Caribbean T20 might be an ideal litmus.

Wasn't aware we had that tour, good stuff.

Realistically, even the most optimistic people will concede that Ryder's unlikely to rein himself in against Plunket Shield level bowlers. He just doesn't rate them. He's shown in the past he can take a more sedate approach to batting at test level though, so I think the best thing for him is to score some runs against India A, Bangladesh etc later this year and get his confidence back. It's a good thing those tours are away from home as well. Looking back at that South African tour here, the NZ public didn't exactly help.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

What about opening with Williamson, he basically is anyway as an early wicket goes and he walks in to face the new ball and looks the most accomplished player against it.

 

[hendrix]

Sigh, in spite of all the doom and gloom, after 9 months of fairly regular test cricket it sure is going to be hard to have to wait 5 months before our next test series.

Yeah, but again it's five months from now. No matter how glum we are about Sunday's result, I think we can all agree that New Zealand are a much better side now than when I started this thread. I don't think it's a coincidence that that improvement has come during a period when New Zealand has had it's most intense burst of test cricket at any time in the last decade (13 tests in 9 months).

Yeah if Southee and Boult lose that consistency it will really suck

 

[hendrix]

What about opening with Williamson, he basically is anyway as an early wicket goes and he walks in to face the new ball and looks the most accomplished player against it.

He's looked very accomplished since his debut yet still averages around 33.

He should be batting at 6 IMO

 

[Dan]

Yeah if Southee and Boult lose that consistency it will really suck

Both could benefit immensely from County stints. I mean, they're available, which is more than can be said for most County international signings these days.

 

[Jezroy]

What about opening with Williamson, he basically is anyway as an early wicket goes and he walks in to face the new ball and looks the most accomplished player against it.

I had wondered about this at ODI level as well as in tests.

ODI's - Has the ability to bat through, just needs to work on turning the strike over better. Has opened in List A and T20's before.

Tests - If he opened, who bat 3? Taylor seems to be the obvious choice, but still think he goes at the ball too hard, too early.

But I like the potential of a batting line up of:

Williamson
Other Opener
Taylor
Brownlie
Ryder (or Guptill/Latham/Broom in the mean time)
McCullum
Watling

 

[wellAlbidarned]

He's looked very accomplished since his debut yet still averages around 33.

He should be batting at 6 IMO

It's just like high school cricket again. Every team has four number sixes and no openers.

 

[lockton2skipper]

watched a lot of bruce martin these last few months, conclusion, like jeets is not test standard.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I had wondered about this at ODI level as well as in tests.

ODI's - Has the ability to bat through, just needs to work on turning the strike over better. Has opened in List A and T20's before.

Tests - If he opened, who bat 3? Taylor seems to be the obvious choice, but still think he goes at the ball too hard, too early.

But I like the potential of a batting line up of:

Williamson
Other Opener
Taylor
Brownlie
Ryder (or Guptill/Latham/Broom in the mean time)
McCullum
Watling

As your best but still somewhat limited batsman Taylor's position should be the first one selected. Taylor at 3 will have you two down in 5 minutes, your best bat back in the pavilion. He needs to get in against an older ball as much as possible.

 

[Maximas]

watched a lot of bruce martin these last few months, conclusion, like jeets is not test standard.

Clearly, Vettori is being flown in early which should be good, although his last test was ****.

 

[RxGM]

I had wondered about this at ODI level as well as in tests.

ODI's - Has the ability to bat through, just needs to work on turning the strike over better. Has opened in List A and T20's before.

Tests - If he opened, who bat 3? Taylor seems to be the obvious choice, but still think he goes at the ball too hard, too early.

But I like the potential of a batting line up of:

Williamson
Other Opener
Taylor
Brownlie
Ryder (or Guptill/Latham/Broom in the mean time)
McCullum
Watling

Good luck trying to get Ross to bat any higher than 4 - fits into the same category as Tendulkar, Kallis, Pieterson, Crowe, (the list is endless) best batsman in any team gets to chose to bat where they think they will score the most runs.
Fleming tried th approach, from 2004 onwards, of fitting the best 5/6 batsman in the side, rather than picking specialists for each position, it was one of several factors imo that lead to the dramatic drop off in our test performance.
Take a look at Sri Lanka for example they have been through a long list of openers in the last 7-8 years but Sangakara or Jayawardene have not moved up the order.

Personally I think if Brownlie wants to have a long term future in the side he should consider developing himself into an opener, with Taylor at 4 and McCullum at 5/6 his position will always be under threat from young talent coming through (ie Craig Cachopa), gifted strokemakers (Ryder, guptill), or the need to play a batting all rounder.

His other option is to score buckets of runs and lock his spot in.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Martin doing a bit of what we've seen from Haurtiz and Lyon in the past, contributing pretty damn well in first innings but then not getting the job done when he's expected to in the second. Looks like when he thinks the ball is supposed to be spinning, he bowls it into the wicket more, trying to rip it past the batsman, rather than with the same flight that he shows off when he thinks that spin won't be such a big factor.

 

[Prince EWS]

Martin doing a bit of what we've seen from Haurtiz and Lyon in the past, contributing pretty damn well in first innings but then not getting the job done when he's expected to in the second. Looks like when he thinks the ball is supposed to be spinning, he bowls it into the wicket more, trying to rip it past the batsman, rather than with the same flight that he shows off when he thinks that spin won't be such a big factor.

Yeah spot on IMO.

 

[BeeGee]

He should be batting at 6 IMO

You could be talking about anyone in our top six, bar Taylor.

 

[hendrix]

You could be talking about anyone in our top six, bar Taylor.

Very true, although a straight swap between Williamson and Brownlie would be ideal IMO.

Brownlie to me looks more like a top 4 batsman, and no, that's not because he can't play spin.