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Ambrose v McGrath
- Thread starter iamdavid
- Start date
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Still misreprisenting that old cherry?Geoffboycott
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Ambrose has got Steve Waugh out 11 times, Miandad was dominated by Ambrose, if u want check the statistics and Allan Border was Ambrose's bunny. If u remember Dean Jones tried to upset Ambrose once by asking him to remove his wrist band and Ambrose replied with a five wicket hall in that one-day and then he took 10 wickets at Adeleide and 9 at Perth. Whereas Mcgrath was hit by Sachin for 3 sixes in a One-day and he got frustrated and then when Lara scored 153 not out he upset Mcgrath with his batting and then can anyone forget how Sarwan took on Mcgrath in the Antigua Test? So speaking of being mentally Ambrose is way ahead of any bowler of his generation. How many bowlers have defended 98,120,191,186 in the last innings of a Test. No team has chased and won more than 250 runs against West Indies when Ambrose bowled whereas against Mcgrath 308,417 and 373 have been chased. So now tell me who is better?
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
So you post all the good things Ambrose did, and all the rubbish things McGrath did, and then say Ambrose was better? Well balanced argument there....
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
I think that 308,417 run chase tilts the balance.
Geoffboycott
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
You name the stats McGrath has over ambrose then and we'll see how they balance out?
Plumbinfront
Banned
Without checking statsguru...an extra 130 odd wickets, better average, a more rounded record.
Geoffboycott
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Ambrose has a better average and better economy then McGrath. Played far less tests then McGrath. If they would have played the same amount of tests ambrose would be ahead in wickets taken aswell. just like if bradman played the same amount as tendulkar he'd have more runs. It's just the same with curtly.
Probably the two best seam/pace bowlers I've ever had the pleasure of watching.
Ambrose has it by a whisker for me, but it's incredibly close.
The mention of run chases against sides where the two men led the attack should not tip the balance automatically, but it does hint at a key difference between the two as bowlers.
Curtly had a certain impact on batsmen and entire line-ups that was unrivalled.
Once he struck early, it's as if experienced international players would go into a tentative shell and play the bowler instead of the ball. Batting collapses were something that Ambrose seemed able to trigger almost at will when he was in the mood.
The other key area of difference IMO is that once Bishop's injurys got the better of him (shame as he was a quality paceman of a very different style), Ambi (ably assisted by Walsh) effectively were the West Indies' attack. Carrying an entire side of the team effort creates a sort of pressure that I don't think McGrath, with the benefit of some quality support, ever had to deal with.
You'd constantly see Ambrose tie down an end, then Walsh pick up wickets as batsmen saw him as a slightly better opportunity to score.
McGrath = great bowler, and cannot be biased either way being English, Both of these guys destroyed us plenty of times...
Wanted to know the thoughts of others on this one as well - could Ambrose bat?
I always got the feeling he had a bit more ability than he showed for any sustained period - have seen him strike some serious blows but also give it away with lazy or rash shots, as though the discipline of batting never really appealed to him.
West Indies have always had notoriously long tails for as long as I've been watching cricker - Ambrose batted at nine on a regular basis and they often had someone else coming in after Walsh in the later years. Interested in any thoughts on why this is...
Ambrose has it by a whisker for me, but it's incredibly close.
The mention of run chases against sides where the two men led the attack should not tip the balance automatically, but it does hint at a key difference between the two as bowlers.
Curtly had a certain impact on batsmen and entire line-ups that was unrivalled.
Once he struck early, it's as if experienced international players would go into a tentative shell and play the bowler instead of the ball. Batting collapses were something that Ambrose seemed able to trigger almost at will when he was in the mood.
The other key area of difference IMO is that once Bishop's injurys got the better of him (shame as he was a quality paceman of a very different style), Ambi (ably assisted by Walsh) effectively were the West Indies' attack. Carrying an entire side of the team effort creates a sort of pressure that I don't think McGrath, with the benefit of some quality support, ever had to deal with.
You'd constantly see Ambrose tie down an end, then Walsh pick up wickets as batsmen saw him as a slightly better opportunity to score.
McGrath = great bowler, and cannot be biased either way being English, Both of these guys destroyed us plenty of times...
Wanted to know the thoughts of others on this one as well - could Ambrose bat?
I always got the feeling he had a bit more ability than he showed for any sustained period - have seen him strike some serious blows but also give it away with lazy or rash shots, as though the discipline of batting never really appealed to him.
West Indies have always had notoriously long tails for as long as I've been watching cricker - Ambrose batted at nine on a regular basis and they often had someone else coming in after Walsh in the later years. Interested in any thoughts on why this is...
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Why bother? They're really similar. As if it matters really. In an ATG schoolyard selection scenario, if I got either I wouldn't care.
Coronis
International Coach
Glenn McGrath.
the big bambino
International Captain
Warne got alot of deserved credit for Aus' success but I think we relied on McGrath even more. I think that was Holding's view as well though he stated it in a round about way that I may have misiniterpretated.
Anyway its what I think. McGrath led our attack and if one were to be injured or caught taking diuretics then I'd prefer it to be the blonde bcos we'd miss McGrath more. Warne's rating as top 5 cricketer ever notwithstanding. Therefore I think that McGrath's importance to us was as much as the WI on Ambrose who were very beatable without him even with Walsh and Bishop still standing.
Would have to resolve to a ridiculously minute level to separate them.
Anyway its what I think. McGrath led our attack and if one were to be injured or caught taking diuretics then I'd prefer it to be the blonde bcos we'd miss McGrath more. Warne's rating as top 5 cricketer ever notwithstanding. Therefore I think that McGrath's importance to us was as much as the WI on Ambrose who were very beatable without him even with Walsh and Bishop still standing.
Would have to resolve to a ridiculously minute level to separate them.
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Top_Cat
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Both a product of their times, tbh. On his day, Ambrose a touch more destructive but on flat decks, sometimes he himself looked awfully flat whereas McG was generally threatening even on the most bereft of pitches (more experience bowling on them throughout his career). Evens itself out so I actually struggle to find any genuine points of separation because their methods were incredibly similar, especially after Curtly dropped his pace a bit.
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Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I'm actually surprised Ambrose is leading in this poll; I think if we started a fresh one then the currently active members on CW would vote in McGrath pretty comfortably.
That said it was a nice surprise; Ambrose every time for me.
That said it was a nice surprise; Ambrose every time for me.
