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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

JBMAC

State Captain
I saw Knotty play loads of times, and Don Tallon was way before my time, so I can't make a direct comparison, but despite the glowing terms in which all his contemporaries describe his keeping I do wonder about Tallon

For example the only truly great spinner he kept to in Tests was Tiger O'Reilly, just the once, in NZ just after the war - NZ mustered just 96 in their two innings combined, 8 of them byes

In 46/47 Tallon conceded 91 byes in the 5 Tests, as against 47 by Godfrey Evans for England, which strikes me (in both cases) to be a lot more than you'd expect given their reputations
Fair comments there fred.I am lucky enough to have seen them both.Saw Tallon in both Shield games and Tests and he was vastly superior to Knott in all facets of the Stumper's art.I have actually seen him on a number of occasions "stand up" for Lindwall and that is no mean feat in itself.I really don't consider the number of byes as a yardstick. eg the 4 byes Harmison gave away in that Test against the Aussies.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fair comments there fred.I am lucky enough to have seen them both.Saw Tallon in both Shield games and Tests and he was vastly superior to Knott in all facets of the Stumper's art.I have actually seen him on a number of occasions "stand up" for Lindwall and that is no mean feat in itself.I really don't consider the number of byes as a yardstick. eg the 4 byes Harmison gave away in that Test against the Aussies.
Yes I'm not reading too much into the byes figures - at the end of the day I know Tallon was an old-fashioned "stumper" who was always looking to pressurise the batsman and who therefore stood up to just about everybody whenever he could - Evans was cut from similar cloth although I don't think he often stood up to the out and fast men, but he certainly did to Alec Bedser - wouldn't have thought he would have dared to do so to Fiery Fred, unless he was trying to gee him up of course!

Knotty on the other hand rarely stood up to seamers so I'd expect him to concede fewer byes and drop fewer catches than Tallon, but I was surprised just how many Tallon conceded in 46/47, but if he was standing up to Lindwall, and I don't suppose McCool, Tribe and Toshack were the easiest to keep to, then I won't be holding it against him!
 

kyear2

International Coach
Whats with the facination with two spinners though, the most effective attacks sine covered pitches have been three fast/seam bowlers and one spinner plus a part timer. The W.I. did it with four pacers and they fared pretty well. Don't see the nees for two spinners, plus it forces Sobers to bowl more overs.
 

H4G

Banned
My Greatest XI:

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
George Headley
Andy Flower+
Imran Khan*
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muralitharan
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
My Greatest XI:

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
George Headley
Andy Flower+
Imran Khan*
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muralitharan
One of these things is not like the other
One of these things just doesn't belong..
 

kyear2

International Coach
From my memory he was a relatively poor keeper, and my opinion regarding Wasim is well known. Most over rated cricketer imho
 

Coronis

International Coach
Whats with the facination with two spinners though, the most effective attacks sine covered pitches have been three fast/seam bowlers and one spinner plus a part timer. The W.I. did it with four pacers and they fared pretty well. Don't see the nees for two spinners, plus it forces Sobers to bowl more overs.
Well, when you have two world class spinners, you get these sort of stats for them..
15 matches 26 innings, 88 wickets @ 20.85 with 9 5 fors and 4 10 fors, almost 6 wpm
15 matches 27 innings, 81 wickets @ 21.46 with 6 5 fors and 2 10 fors, 5.4 wpm

Has there ever been a more successful bowling duo? Between Grimmett and O'Reilly, they took 169 wickets in 15 matches, costing just 21.15 runs a wicket.

My Greatest XI:

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman*
Viv Richards
George Headley
Andy Flower+
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muralitharan
Fixed.
 
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Coronis

International Coach
Hence why I referenced since the advent of covered pitches.
The last time a country had great spinners was probably Warne and MacGill, and I don't think we used them in tandem anywhere near as much as we should have. India didn't do bad at all with Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Prasanna and the little mentioned Ventaraghavan. In more recent times too, they've had success with Harbajhan and Kumble who are nowhere near the quality of Warne and MacGill.
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
From my memory he was a relatively poor keeper, and my opinion regarding Wasim is well known. Most over rated cricketer imho
Why? Wasim was awesome. I've not heard your opinion on this.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I've just drafted Wasim, so I'll big him up by selecting him in today's ATG team.

- Gordon Greenidge
- Barry Richards
- Don Bradman
- Greg Chappell/Brian Lara
- Viv Richards
- Garry Sobers
- Adam Gilchrist
- Wasim Akram
- Shane Warne
- Dennis Lillee
- Curtly Ambrose


No one will beat that team. Ever.
 

Coronis

International Coach
I've just drafted Wasim, so I'll big him up by selecting him in today's ATG team.

- Gordon Greenidge
- Barry Richards
- Don Bradman
- Greg Chappell/Brian Lara
- Viv Richards
- Garry Sobers
- Adam Gilchrist
- Wasim Akram
- Shane Warne
- Dennis Lillee
- Curtly Ambrose


No one will beat that team. Ever.
Jack Hobbs
Herb Sutcliffe
George Headley
Graeme Pollock
Wally Hammond
Jacques Kallis
Mike Procter
Imran Khan*
Alan Knott+
Malcolm Marshall
Murali

Done. Batting to 10, and an arguably stronger bowling attack.
 
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Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Sunil Gavaskar
Len Hutton
Ricky Ponting
Sachin Tendulkar
Frank Worrell *
Keith Miller
Aubrey Faulkner
Godfrey Evans +
Harold Larwood
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath


I'd back that XI against the teams you've put up.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Barry Richards
Jack Hobbs
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Brian Lara
Adam Gilchrist
Mike Procter
Malcolm Marshall
Syd Barnes/ Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee

Agressive, talented unbeatable XI
 

smash84

The Tiger King
The invincibles

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Viv Richards
Dean Headley/Greaeme Pollock/Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Beat this team.
 

Coronis

International Coach
The invincibles

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Viv Richards
Dean Headley/Greaeme Pollock/Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Beat this team.
Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hammond
Tendulkar
Chappell*
Kallis
Miller
Procter
Knott+
Murali
McGrath

Damn hard task there smali.
 

Mike5181

International Captain
The invincibles

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Viv Richards
Dean Headley/Greaeme Pollock/Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Beat this team.
1. Leonard Hutton
2. Barry Richards
3. Brian Lara
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Jacques Kallis
7. Alan Knott+
8. Wasim Akram
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Glenn McGrath

You can get pretty close with the remaining players, assuming I get two of Headley/Pollock/Lara. Bradman kills it though.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
The invincibles

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Viv Richards
Dean Headley/Greaeme Pollock/Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Beat this team.


Possibly batting a bit high in the order with his career average of 8. :laugh:
 

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