The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[harsh.ag]

That list is incorrect if citing Dickie Birds autobiography, page 311. His ATG XI is madeup of the players he has seen in action, and is;

01. Barry Richards
02. Sunil Gavaskar
03. Viv Richards
04. Greg Chappell
05. Graeme Pollock
06. Garfield Sobers
07. Alan Knott
08. Richard Hadlee
09. Michael Holding
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Lance Gibbs

12th Andy Roberts & Abdul Qadir

He commented;

'I consider Barry Richards to be the best batsman I have ever seen.'

'To provide balance in the squad I had to have a couple of spin bowlers, and this gave me the biggest headache of all. There is no doubt about my off-spinner. That choice fell on Lance Gibbs...Probably the biggest spinner of the ball I have ever seen.'

'So we come to Qadir. Maybe he did not turn the ball as much as Warne, and maybe he was not as devastating on a turner as Underwood, but he finally gets my vote because his variation was unmatchable.'

'As for the fast bowlers, to my mind Dennis Lillee was the best who ever lived.'

Great post! Nice to know his views on Qadir, Gibbs, Lillee and Richards.

I got this team from an Indian news website which is running a story about DIckie's XI, and how Sunny is in it and Tendulkar isn't, blah blah..

Dickie's XI

 

[kyear2]

I believe Hammond gets very overlooked in ATG discussions, probably because, he had the unfortunate luck to play at the same time as Hobbs, who was considered England's batsman (still is, according to many) and Bradman. So, I guess I'm putting his case forward.

But geez, when you look at his stats, he's absolutely insane.

In tests,
85 matches, 140 innings
7249 runs @ 58.45
22 centuries
7 double centuries

In first class,
634 matches, 1005 innings
50551 runs @ 56.10
167 centuries

Sadly, I have so far been unable to find further records of his first class career (double centuries), but in tests alone, those figures are amazing. Almost a third of the time he scored 100, he'd go on to 200. Only 3 players have scored more double centuries than him, one is the Don, and the other two have played many more tests than him. Apart from Bradman, only one player (Boycott) has a higher average than him in first class cricket, of those to score 20000 runs or more. He has scored the third highest amount of centuries in first class cricket however, playing 300 less innings than those above him.

He even came back, at the age of 43, after the second world war, afflicted by arthritis, to once again play test cricket. Had it not been for this, his average would have been 61.45.

Of course, he was also a very useful fast bowler, and an excellent slip fielder.

So I guess I'm putting him into my XI.

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Herbert Sutcliffe
3. Don Bradman*
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Wally Hammond^
6. Garry Sobers^
7. Adam Gilchrist+
8. Malcolm Marshall
9. Shane Warne^
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Glenn McGrath

I guess people will still harp on about me needing a 3rd ATG pace bowler, but hey, both Warne and Murali have bowled early in test matches, and taken wickets. Hammond and Sobers can both bowl some pace if needed. Also, that's a damn good slip cordon, I reckon.

As an All Round cricketer Hammond is very under rated, before Sobers came around he was probably the best in test cricket. Personally think he was a little suspect againts pace bowling, but other than that he was fantastic and supposedly an amazing slipper. And your slip cordon is superb.
I personally don't think that an attack can be that great with only two pacers and even with Hammond and Sobers the pace attack looks a little short, but it's your team.

I am always a little surprised when I see Pollock in AT XI's as he only played in 22 Tests and unfortunately for him managed to miss the careers of all of the great Australian fast men and only getting to face Benaud in his first series. Againts England he only got to face Snow in what was Snow's second test and Statham in his last. Unlike B. Richards he didn't even get to prove himself in WSC, so he never really got a change to engage in any memorable match ups or taken on any of the greats to prove what he really could do vs the very best. Truely unfortunate for one of his abilities.

 

[harsh.ag]

I am always a little surprised when I see Pollock in AT XI's as he only played in 22 Tests and unfortunately for him managed to miss the careers of all of the great Australian fast men and only getting to face Benaud in his first series. Against England he only got to face Snow in what was Snow's second test and Statham in his last. Unlike B. Richards he didn't even get to prove himself in WSC, so he never really got a change to engage in any memorable match ups or taken on any of the greats to prove what he really could do vs the very best. Truly unfortunate for one of his abilities.

True. But you know, there was a charity one-day match in the 1994/95, with Pollock batting alongside Lara, and he smashed 89 off 71 balls. It was brilliant. He still had it.

Here is the link, it's our friend robelinda again
Graeme Pollock 1994/95 - 89 (71)

 

[NUFAN]

My All Time Great XI
1 Sunil Gavaskar
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Ricky Ponting
4 Brian Lara
5 Viv Richards
6 Steve Waugh
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Imran Khan
9 Shane Warne
10 Curtly Ambrose
11 Glenn McGrath


Bradman, Hutton, Hobbs, Barnes, Trueman, Hammond, Grace, Trumble etc were excluded because they played in conditions not known to Gavaskar, Hayden, Ponting, Lara, Richards, Waugh, Gilchrist, Imran, Warne, Ambrose, McGrath.

Z

 

[harsh.ag]

My All Time Great XI
1 Sunil Gavaskar
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Ricky Ponting
4 Brian Lara
5 Viv Richards
6 Steve Waugh
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Imran Khan
9 Shane Warne
10 Curtly Ambrose
11 Glenn McGrath


Bradman, Hutton, Hobbs, Barnes, Trueman, Hammond, Grace, Trumble etc were excluded because they played in conditions not known to Gavaskar, Hayden, Ponting, Lara, Richards, Waugh, Gilchrist, Imran, Warne, Ambrose, McGrath.

Z

Hey, mate. Did something bad happen today? Don't worry, everything will turn out fine.

 

[kyear2]

True. But you know, there was a charity one-day match in the 1994/95, with Pollock batting alongside Lara, and he smashed 89 off 71 balls. It was brilliant. He still had it.

Here is the link, it's our friend robelinda again
Graeme Pollock 1994/95 - 89 (71)

Yup the old guys never seem to loose it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZAOexzuS2Y

 

[NUFAN]

Hey, mate. Did something bad happen today? Don't worry, everything will turn out fine.

Actually yes, needed to see my Chiro today for my back.

But Nufan refuses to select Bradman, Barnes , Sobers etc cause the conditions they faced are foreign to the new players as Cardus so annoyingly stated yesterday.

Harsh, can you believe Sachy baby still couldn't make my team?

 

[kyear2]

Short video of Gibbs combining with Sobers to dismiss 2 English batsman - great catches;

Lance Gibbs (2 wickets v Eng - Lords 1973) - YouTube

Partnership by Bradman and Ponsford I spied while looking at the above.

Sir Donald Bradman and Bill Ponsford's Partnership of 451 Runs at the Oval, 1934 Ashes - YouTube

 

[harsh.ag]

Actually yes, needed to see my Chiro today for my back.

But Nufan refuses to select Bradman, Barnes , Sobers etc cause the conditions they faced are foreign to the new players as Cardus so annoyingly stated yesterday.

Harsh, can you believe Sachy baby still couldn't make my team?

Ah.. The Barnes-Turner-Trumbel-Cardus debate! Nice to see a follow up so unexpectedly. Yeah, Cardus was being a bit of an ass, and you know, I sometimes think ours is probably the only generation (honestly) who place a lot of importance on past players. Even until the early 80s, recent players were given much more weightage.

Perhaps because of the internet, and easy access to all the old data. Says a lot about us.

 

[NUFAN]

Just on the selection of Gibbs, I think many people like including one slightly left field selection in their own personal best ofs (not only cricket) as it creates discussion, makes others look at things differently and it creates an enjoyable element to the selection process.

 

[smash84]

I don't really care about Barnes, because like most early era players, he's too hard to judge. So if someone includes him, or doesn't include him, I don't really mind.

I think you can mount a case for Trueman, Lindwall and maybe Larwood being Marshall's equals. Of course it's all subjective, but it's possible.

Personally, I'd include Marshall in a shortlist of 6, but he may or may not make my final XI. Lillee always will, Imran usually will, then the third spot for a quick depends on the day.

Benaud's biggest oversight was not including Knott. I can't fathom how you'd have Marsh over Knott in that shortlist. They were contemporaries, and Knott was a better keeper, and probably a better batsman. Odd.

Qadir was also a strange choice. Really strange! I think Benaud was making a point here without making a quote, possibly that he views Murali's action suspiciously. I'd have thought he'd have included Grimmett over Qadir anyway.



I assume his point is that fast bowlers should be aggressive, but that when there are four of them, bowling slow over rates with a lot of bouncers and balls that are ridiculously difficult to score from, it makes for very unattractive, monotonous cricket. Fwiw I agree with that.


.

Quite agree with the above. If you choose any of the top 10 ATG fast bowlers to have played the game ahead of Marshall I don't think you lose out too much.

 

[Prince EWS]

My All Time Great XI
1 Sunil Gavaskar
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Ricky Ponting
4 Brian Lara
5 Viv Richards
6 Steve Waugh
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Imran Khan
9 Shane Warne
10 Curtly Ambrose
11 Glenn McGrath


Bradman, Hutton, Hobbs, Barnes, Trueman, Hammond, Grace, Trumble etc were excluded because they played in conditions not known to Gavaskar, Hayden, Ponting, Lara, Richards, Waugh, Gilchrist, Imran, Warne, Ambrose, McGrath.

Z

My All Time Great XI
1 WG Grace
2 Jack Hobbs
3 Donald Bradman
4 George Headley
5 Walter Hammond
6 Keith Miller
7 Les Ames
8 Alan Davidson
9 Charlie Turner
10 Sydney Barnes
11 Bill O'Reilly

Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Lara, Sobers, Marshall, Imran, Gilchrist etc were excluded because they played in conditions not known to Grace, Hobbs, Bradman, Headley, Hammond, Miller, Ames, Davidson, Turner, Barnes and O'Reilly.

 

[kyear2]

lol

 

[NUFAN]

Yes Turner makes an XI.

I hope you followed Pews the reason behind my pisstake XI.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yes Turner makes an XI.

I hope you followed Pews the reason behind my pisstake XI.

Haha yeah I was just extending the piss take.

 

[benchmark00]

I think picking WG Grace took it too far.

 

[NUFAN]

Haha yeah I was just extending the piss take.

Just been doing some light reading and after some research my new ATG World XI

1 Matthew Elliott
2 Bruce Laird
3 Asanka Gurusinghe
4 David Houghton
5 Usman Afzaal
6 Mohsin Khan
7 Lee Germon
8 Lance Klusener
9 Adam Huckle
10 Chris Old
11 Aaqib Javed

It should be noted that I refused to pick every other Test Cricketer as no other Test Cricketer ever walked in any of the players selected shoes, therefore I couldn't judge them fairly, so alas this is the new ATG XI.

 

[watson]

Just been doing some light reading and after some research my new ATG World XI

1 Matthew Elliott
2 Bruce Laird
3 Asanka Gurusinghe
4 David Houghton
5 Usman Afzaal
6 Mohsin Khan
7 Lee Germon
8 Lance Klusener
9 Adam Huckle
10 Chris Old
11 Aaqib Javed

It should be noted that I refused to pick every other Test Cricketer as no other Test Cricketer ever walked in any of the players selected shoes, therefore I couldn't judge them fairly, so alas this is the new ATG XI.

None from the 1890s NUFAN?

I thought that WA Woof's 754 wickets at 17.73, or AW Mold's 1673 wickets 15.54 a piece would make them a shoe-in. In comparison Chris Old's FC Average of 23.48 is pretty ordinary and should exclude him from your team.

 

[NUFAN]

I'd be barking mad if I included Woof in my XI.

 

[Coronis]

Okay guys, which of these teams do you think looks better.

Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Pollock, Hammond, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Warne, Murali, McGrath

or

Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Pollock, Hammond, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Barnes, Murali, McGrath