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What has been the single biggest contributing factor to Australia's demise?

Single biggest contributing factor to Australia's demise?


  • Total voters
    38

Flem274*

123/5
They'll be ok. Batting in India is exaggerating how poor the batsmen are because of the quality of the spin bowling they're facing and the conditions.

Because there are no quality spin bowlers in Australian domestic cricket, the inexperienced batsmen in the Australian side don't know how to cope test spinners on favourable surfaces.

The only batsman with no excuse is Watson because he's toured India before, I'm pretty sure he has a hundred there, and he isn't helping Clarke carry the less experienced batsmen.

Also the new batting stocks just aren't as good as the old batting stocks, and it's something Australia will need to live with for a while.
 
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Zinzan

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Failure to properly utilise resources, IMHO.

Australian test side with Katich, Hodge & Rogers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Australian test side without Katich, Hodge & Rogers.
^ Totally agree about the likes of Katich, Hodge & Rogers. Especially considering when Australia were at their strongest it was almost policy that batsmen needed a minimum of 15 FC centuries before getting a run at test level. Michael Clarke was about the only exception I can remember in the decade between '95 & '05. Seems the selectors now prefer talent over performance.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
^ Totally agree about the likes of Katich, Hodge & Rogers. Especially considering when Australia were at their strongest it was almost policy that batsmen needed a minimum of 15 FC centuries before getting a run at test level. Michael Clarke was about the only exception I can remember in the decade between '95 & '05. Seems the selectors now prefer talent over performance.
The reason it seems that way is because if Australia were to select their Test side on performance then pretty much nobody would be in the side on merit. Aside from your Ricky Pontings, Hussey brothers, Katich, Rogers and Jacques, there's literally no-one in Australia that I can think of who's not in the Test team who has figures that demand selection. Barely anyone in the 27-32 age bracket has consistently put up Shield numbers year in, year out that have demanded selection, which is why guys like Ed Cowan don't look up to it at international level and why the selectors are taking punts on the likes of David Warner, Phil Hughes and Usman Khawaja.
 

Zinzan

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The reason it seems that way is because if Australia were to select their Test side on performance then pretty much nobody would be in the side on merit. Aside from your Ricky Pontings, Hussey brothers, Katich, Rogers and Jacques, there's literally no-one in Australia that I can think of who's not in the Test team who has figures that demand selection. Barely anyone in the 27-32 age bracket has consistently put up Shield numbers year in, year out that have demanded selection, which is why guys like Ed Cowan don't look up to it at international level and why the selectors are taking punts on the likes of David Warner, Phil Hughes and Usman Khawaja.
Well Katich, Rogers & Hodge are 3...that's a start & none of them seem to be in the frame.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Yet Cosgrove has an fc ave of 43 and 20 centuries yet can't get a game. If thats bcos of he's a fatty as has been rumoured, then thats a fault of the selection panel. I mean what sort of geniuses go past a player's stats and pick someone with an inferior record just bcos he's skinnier?
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Australia's biggest problem is that the current generation of mid-late 20s batsmen are all gash. For one reason or another, the likes of Ferguson, Marsh, Pomersbach and North have all failed to live up to expectation. Imagine if Marsh and Ferguson had have lived up to what their natural talents suggested that they could have achieved and Jaques had not had his back injury. We'd have a couple of batsmen entering their prime after a couple of years in the squad, a 45+ averaging opener who was nearing the end of his career and Clarke in the middle order. Sure, we still wouldn't be up to the standard that we were in the past, but it's really the failures of the administration to get the best out of what should be the current generation of batsmen that's the issue.

Our team would look a whole lot better if this was the shape of it:

Jaques^
Warner
Marsh*
Ferguson*
Clarke
Watson
Wade
4 bowlers+

^If Jaques hadn't gotten injured and was still performing at or near the level he was before his back injury
*If these two had have kicked on to become the 45 averaging batsmen that they very well could have been
+We would still be weak in the spin department, but our quicks have been as good as, if not better than the fast bowling stocks we had during the 95-07 era.

Hughes would have been pounding down the door and we'd all be rather optimistic about the future of the Australian team right now.
 

flibbertyjibber

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They'll be ok. Batting in India is exaggerating how poor the batsmen are because of the quality of the spin bowling they're facing and the conditions.

Because there are no quality spin bowlers in Australian domestic cricket, the inexperienced batsmen in the Australian side don't know how to cope test spinners on favourable surfaces.

The only batsman with no excuse is Watson because he's toured India before, I'm pretty sure he has a hundred there, and he isn't helping Clarke carry the less experienced batsmen.

Also the new batting stocks just aren't as good as the old batting stocks, and it's something Australia will need to live with for a while.
The same quality spin that just lost at home to England and looked bloody ordinary. Australia look lost against it and are making the Indians look better than they are with bat and ball.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Same. An option is needed "The players we have now aren't as good as the ones we used to have". Easy.
Haha yeah indeed. Worst poll.

Australia don't have a god given right to the best team in the world and automatically assume there have been major managerial blunders just because they aren't.

The players Australia have at the moment just aren't as good as the ones they had 10 years ago, or as good as the ones in a couple of the other Test sides. There doesn't need to be an inquest into why; that's international sport.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
We have alot of options in pace bowling atm but very few 1st choices. The best are Harris and Pattinson but it wouldn't surprise if Harris never plays a test again and Pattinson hasn't got to the end of a season yet. They are promising but as far as resilience and performance they don't, as a group, come near the golden generation headed by McGrath, Gillespie and supported by Bichel and Kasper.
 

benchmark00

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Haha yeah indeed. Worst poll.

Australia don't have a god given right to the best team in the world and automatically assume there have been major managerial blunders just because they aren't.

The players Australia have at the moment just aren't as good as the ones they had 10 years ago, or as good as the ones in a couple of the other Test sides. There doesn't need to be an inquest into why; that's international sport.
Yep.

Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

That's not to say there aren't ways to improve, but the players Australia have are the players Australia have.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Lack of good batting cattle.

/thread.
Same. An option is needed "The players we have now aren't as good as the ones we used to have". Easy.
Haha yeah indeed. Worst poll.

Australia don't have a god given right to the best team in the world and automatically assume there have been major managerial blunders just because they aren't.

The players Australia have at the moment just aren't as good as the ones they had 10 years ago, or as good as the ones in a couple of the other Test sides. There doesn't need to be an inquest into why; that's international sport.
Yep.

Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

That's not to say there aren't ways to improve, but the players Australia have are the players Australia have.
The players not being as good as they were tails with my point about not utilising the extant resources properly.

The selection panel still picks its test XI & squads like it's 2006. Currently I don't think it's politic to ignore a player's claims just because they're old, a ****, a lardo, have a tendancy to throttle their captain or prefer wine to beer or whatever.
 

benchmark00

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Katich has retired from Australian first class cricket.

Hodge has retired from first class cricket and wasn't the world saver people make him out to be. Has big technical flaws on wickets with any life in them but cashes in on roads.

Rogers is not that good. He is very limited and Cowan is the better opening option, and IMO Cowan shouldn't even be in the team aws. He's a state cricketer.

Reckon if we dig up Victor Trumper we could prop him up Weekend at Bernies style also.
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
Oh, come on. Katich's and Hodge's retirements were at the very least partly attributable to their perception they had Buckley's of getting a recall. Cheaty's made a few comments about making a comeback of late now he thinks he might get a go and the fact Katich can be arsed to spend several months away from his young family playing CC suggests he hasn't lost his appetite for the longer formats entirely.

As for Rogers, well frankly I'm giving a bloke who averages 50+ in England a go ahead of Hughes, Cowan & Khawaja, who all also define limited and don't. Rogers grinds. Scores runs. & doesn't have a glaring minus that might make the selectors given him a swerve like Hussey jr's issues with the short ball.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The players not being as good as they were tails with my point about not utilising the extant resources properly.

The selection panel still picks its test XI & squads like it's 2006. Currently I don't think it's politic to ignore a player's claims just because they're old, a ****, a lardo, have a tendancy to throttle their captain or prefer wine to beer or whatever.
Yeah look, Brad Hodge is 38 and hasn't played a First Class game since 2009. I don't know why he keeps coming up.

Katich was discarded too quickly and it was a move I criticised quite heavily but his Sheffield Shield form since that time certainly hasn't indicated he'd have been a team-changing player. He too is 38 and retired now.

Which basically brings it back to the fact that whenever someone talks about Australia declining or the lack of batting talent, you bring up Chris Rogers and cry blue murder as if there are six or seven blokes who are clearly Test class that the selectors are ignoring based on his case. Well I've always been a fan of Chris Rogers myself - moreso than the vast majority of the country - but he does have a strange technique and a strange way of going about his cricket in general, so there's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that he'd be a Test standard option or better than the blokes who are being picked.

You can complain until you're blue in the face and bring up the names of retired players to make your case look stronger but it's not even close to being the obvious misjustice you're making it out to be; he certainly IMO would've struggled greatly in India, like the rest of our top order have. He was unlucky not to play more than the one Test for Australia and I think he's *probably* still one of our best six batsmen, but that opinion is not a commonly held one in this country and it's not just because Rogers is outspoken either; it's because the standard of his batsmanship is not rated as highly here as it is in your head.

Fact is, if Rogers had actually been in the side for the last seven years he'd almost certainly be showing the same signs of decline he's been showing domestically for the last couple of seasons and be thinking about hanging up the boots anyway.

These blokes are yesterday's heroes. Maybe we should've picked them two years ago to eek something out of them; it was actually something I was very much in favour of at the time, but it's over now. It's not just that they're old; two of them aren't playing anymore and one isn't as good as he was anyway. If they'd had long Test careers for Australia they'd be coming to an end now regardless. The point Stephen makes is spot on - we've had a generation of very talented young batsmen come through and just not kick on as hoped. They're not as good as the players we've had previously, or the players in the best couple of Test sides. And that's sport; it happens sometimes.
 
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benchmark00

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Oh, come on. Katich's and Hodge's retirements were at the very least partly attributable to their perception they had Buckley's of getting a recall. Cheaty's made a few comments about making a comeback of late now he thinks he might get a go and the fact Katich can be arsed to spend several months away from his young family playing CC suggests he hasn't lost his appetite for the longer formats entirely.

As for Rogers, well frankly I'm giving a bloke who averages 50+ in England a go ahead of Hughes, Cowan & Khawaja, who all also define limited and don't. Rogers grinds. Scores runs. & doesn't have a glaring minus that might make the selectors given him a swerve like Hussey jr's issues with the short ball.
So what do you want the selectors to do with Katich and Hodge (who has just as many glaring problems as David Hussey)? They don't play first class cricket in this country ffs. I reckon Matthew Hayden would probably still be better than Cowan, but he doesn't play either.

Brumbeh it's weird that you have that many problems with Hughes but not with Rogers, hardly an oil painting to look at. Sometimes you have to look beneath the raw numbers.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Getting very close to tl;dr territory there, especially at just gone 4am.

The obvious question to ask is "Is the current squad up to it?". If it's not (and it isn't) one has to look at other options. Of course it isn't ideal to go back to blokes in their late 30s but if necessity is the mother or invention then desperation is its grandparent.
 

L Trumper

State Regular
Getting very close to tl;dr territory there, especially at just gone 4am.

The obvious question to ask is "Is the current squad up to it?". If it's not (and it isn't) one has to look at other options. Of course it isn't ideal to go back to blokes in their late 30s but if necessity is the mother or invention then desperation is its grandparent.
They are playing reasonably well for the last 18 months. Why exactly do they need to get rid of all these players? Just because of one poor series in India? and then recall 35-40 olds back?
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Well I'll tell you one thing - the answer to the poll question definitely isn't "Not picking Chris Rogers" ....
 

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