***Official*** Australia in India 2012/13

[burr]

Does getting an injured bloke count?




Clarke is comfortably the best player of spin outside the Asian countries around today. Who really cares if he is good as Lara or not, I bet Clarke would be pretty happy to be mentioned in the same breath as him as Lara was a genius and Clarke is well on the way to having a record better than the great man. Can't see why people are trying to pick holes in the best bat in the world right now when he is singlehandedly carrying his teams batting like Lara did for long periods.

Arachnadouche is right, Clarke is bloody good.

Yes, this is where the Lara comparison is most apt.

 

[Furball]

Seems like the thread was dire today. Coincidence that I wasn't around? Doubt it.

You seem to have gotten yourself confused with Jono.

 

[silentstriker]

Needed to get up today so I went to sleep right at the tea session. Haha, wow.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, if you decide to discount all the blokes Clarke has ever done well against in order to boost your own pov then your opinion will always be worthless, frankly.

Which, tbf, it plainly was before your last post anyway. There is no way on this earth or any other that Lara was twice the player of spin, or more, that Clarke is. It's a ridiculous point of view. It's one thing to say he was better, but it's absurd to say Lara was Clarke squared against spinners. He just wasn't.

I think Lara is the best batsman I have seen in my time of watching cricket and is easily the best against spin in that period but thee is no way Clarke is THAT far off him. The guy is a nightmare to bowl at for a spinner Has a lot of the same strengths as Lara against spin AFAIC.. Twinkle toed, can go fully back or fully forward, puts them off easily and most importantly can get the singles easily which is something that frustrates the spinner the most.. I would still rate Lara higher as he has proved it in tougher conditions against better spinners but there is no way to say he won't have managed just as well or almost just as well as Lara in those conditions.. The only area Lara is better in as much as you compare given that they played in diff. conditions and eras basically, is that Lara seemed to be able to do more with the sweep and play different versions of it added to all the shots he had already.. That is one area where I feel Clarke is not quite at the same level but everything else, he seems to be as good as Lara, IMO..


But there is one guy who I want to mention here when it comes to dominating spinners.. KP.. Granted he hit some disappointing lows against spin at times, but he has also dominated them in difficult conditiosn and that has happened often enough to warrant his name being included in such discussions IMO.. He made the spinners look more hapless than Lara and Clarke ever did at their best, AFAIC.. Man is he a beast when in the nick against spin..

 

[centurymaker]

Does getting an injured bloke count?




Clarke is comfortably the best player of spin outside the Asian countries around today. Who really cares if he is good as Lara or not, I bet Clarke would be pretty happy to be mentioned in the same breath as him as Lara was a genius and Clarke is well on the way to having a record better than the great man. Can't see why people are trying to pick holes in the best bat in the world right now when he is singlehandedly carrying his teams batting like Lara did for long periods.

Arachnadouche is right, Clarke is bloody good.

Yeah. Criticism levelled at his batting now is totally ridiculous.

 

[Satyanash89]

But there is one guy who I want to mention here when it comes to dominating spinners.. KP.. Granted he hit some disappointing lows against spin at times, but he has also dominated them in difficult conditiosn and that has happened often enough to warrant his name being included in such discussions IMO.. He made the spinners look more hapless than Lara and Clarke ever did at their best, AFAIC.. Man is he a beast when in the nick against spin..

Agreed completely... two hundreds from KP last year: 151 in SL and especially the 186 against India (one of the best ever innings on a spitting track ive ever seen) showed that when in the groove he simply has no peer... during some moments in his three masterpieces last year, he reached heights ive only seen Lara himself approach.

Imo,Sehwag pre-2011 deserves a mention too. His double at Galle against Murali-Mendis on a minefield is arguably in the top 5 innings ever played by an Indian imo. Its astonishing how good his footwork is, or was, against quality spin. He wasnt like Clarke, who loves charging down the wicket at will, but mostly just either got his front foot a long way forward right to the pitch to smother the spin or go right back to cut away anything marginally short. Shame how he's doing now though

 

[Prince EWS]

I think Lara is the best batsman I have seen in my time of watching cricket and is easily the best against spin in that period but thee is no way Clarke is THAT far off him. The guy is a nightmare to bowl at for a spinner Has a lot of the same strengths as Lara against spin AFAIC.. Twinkle toed, can go fully back or fully forward, puts them off easily and most importantly can get the singles easily which is something that frustrates the spinner the most.. I would still rate Lara higher as he has proved it in tougher conditions against better spinners but there is no way to say he won't have managed just as well or almost just as well as Lara in those conditions.. The only area Lara is better in as much as you compare given that they played in diff. conditions and eras basically, is that Lara seemed to be able to do more with the sweep and play different versions of it added to all the shots he had already.. That is one area where I feel Clarke is not quite at the same level but everything else, he seems to be as good as Lara, IMO..


But there is one guy who I want to mention here when it comes to dominating spinners.. KP.. Granted he hit some disappointing lows against spin at times, but he has also dominated them in difficult conditiosn and that has happened often enough to warrant his name being included in such discussions IMO.. He made the spinners look more hapless than Lara and Clarke ever did at their best, AFAIC.. Man is he a beast when in the nick against spin..

Yeah, good post.

I've not seen a batsman in my lifetime with a higher ceiling against spin than Pietersen I don't think, but both Lara and Clarke were/are better players of spin than him overall. You'd back yourself a really good chance against Pietersen early in his innings as a spinner, especially if you happened to be a left arm filth bowler. It's just that when he was in it wouldn't matter if you were Richard Dawson or Bill O'Reilly; you were probably going to get hit out of the attack pretty quickly.

I'd love to give an honourable mention to someone who doesn't come up a lot on this topic; Kallis. In typical Kallis style he's not in this class for memorable innings against all time great opponents, but for his absolutely ruthless efficiency against your average to good Test cricketer - of which there will always be plenty of in any opposition lineup. He certainly wasn't a failure against either Warne or Murali but he didn't get on top of them either; he's in this class because if you were anything less than a great spinner of your time, you had absolutely no ****ing chance of getting him out. He's the anti-KP in this regard, and I don't regard him as good a player of spin as KP let alone Clarke or Lara, but he's someone who I think deserves more of a mention for his clinical efficiency against the quality of spin you're going to face far more often than that in the daily grind that is Test cricket. Pretty much hits a six off a mediocre off break bowler in every innings he bats in these days too, WAG.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, good post.

I've not seen a batsman in my lifetime with a higher ceiling against spin than Pietersen I don't think, but both Lara and Clarke were/are better players of spin than him overall. You'd back yourself a really good chance against Pietersen early in his innings as a spinner, especially if you happened to be a left arm filth bowler. It's just that when he was in it wouldn't matter if you were Richard Dawson or Bill O'Reilly; you were probably going to get hit out of the attack pretty quickly.

I'd love to give an honourable mention to someone who doesn't come up a lot on this topic; Kallis. In typical Kallis style he's not in this class for memorable innings against all time great opponents, but for his absolutely ruthless efficiency against your average to good Test cricketer - of which there will always be plenty of in any opposition lineup. He certainly wasn't a failure against either Warne or Murali but he didn't get on top of them either; he's in this class because if you were anything less than a great spinner of your time, you had absolutely no ****ing chance of getting him out. He's the anti-KP in this regard, and I don't regard him as good a player of spin as KP let alone Clarke or Lara, but he's someone who I think deserves more of a mention for his clinical efficiency against the quality of spin you're going to face far more often than that in the daily grind that is Test cricket. Pretty much hits a six off a mediocre off break bowler in every innings he bats in these days too, WAG.

Yep Kallis is an ATG because you basically have to be one to dominate him

 

[wellAlbidarned]

So it's *posts blatantly baiting Australians* time then

 

[Cevno]

Assuming we are only talking about tests, Lara was awesome against Murali, but never really did that well in India or against India. Kumble troubled him on occasions in the Windies and then in one series so did Venkat Raju when he played in India on turning tracks.

He was a superb player of spin, but the 2 times as good as X or the greatest of all time etc.. comments are largely based on how he played Murali. Even against Warne the likes of Laxman/Sachin etc.. all dominated as much, if not more on more spinning tracks.

Edit - He didn't exactly boss around Saqlain Mushtaq either when they faced on a few occasions IIRC.

 

[Burgey]

Lack of a boring Jono "I was there" review of the day is disappointing. It had a promising start when he posted a Kohli ad whilst presumably having a fap, but the lack of review of the days play was disappointing tstl.

 

[Prince EWS]

Assuming we are only talking about tests, Lara was awesome against Murali, but never really did that well in India or against India. Kumble troubled him on occasions in the Windies and then in one series so did Venkat Raju when he played in India.

Haha Lara was a bit random like that; Prosper Utseya of all bowlers managed to tie him in knots whenever he bowled to him.

 

[silentstriker]

Kumble in India was as good as any spin bowler in their home conditions. Any. So it wouldn't classify that as any kind of randomness. Raju, yeah.


In any case, the overseas player who played spin in India better than any I have ever seen was Andy Flower.

 

[Prince EWS]

Kumble in India was as good as any spin bowler in their home conditions. Any. So it wouldn't classify that as any kind of randomness. Raju, yeah.


In any case, the overseas player who played spin in India better than any I have ever seen was Andy Flower.

Yeah I was referring to Raju specifically; should've bolded it.

 

[centurymaker]

Lack of a boring Jono "I was there" review of the day is disappointing. It had a promising start when he posted a Kohli ad whilst presumably having a fap, but the lack of review of the days play was disappointing tstl.

Yeah. I am disappointed to. His comments are always worth a read.

 

[theegyptian]

Would be amazing to see australia winning this. Don't want Pattinson to run through India. Would be simply incredible for Doherty and Maxwell to run through India just for the reaction on this forum - and in the Indian press. Please happen.

 

[silentstriker]

Would be pretty hilarious if that did happen.

 

[BeeGee]

Clarke looking more Borderesque in each successive teamsheet.

And with each successive teamsheet Australia is looking more and more ****.

Are the Australian selectors honestly suggesting that Cowan, Huges and Watson are three of the best five FC batsmen in Australia? Is Wade the best keeper in Australia? Ronchi is better than Wade and yet he had to leave the country to try and get a crack a Test cricket.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Tom Moody opines "that [wicket] has started a real roll for India".

Itstl.

unfair on moody, it's matthew hayden

They do sound very similar, don't they? Obvz Moody talks far more sense (a low bar, admittedly) and doesn't have to disinfect the BCCI's excretia from his tongue afterwards tho.

Anyway, really not convinced with the declaration. Pattinson is averaging over 40 with the bat just now, after all. Inflated as that is, he's patently no dunce with the willow in hand & I reckon a few slogged runs were a sounder bet than the off chance of a wicket in three overs.

Kudos to Clarke for the funky thinking, but he's wont to be slightly too much of the clever charlie sometimes.

 

[silentstriker]

And...India has always had a problem with cleaning up the tail, lacking the real fast bowlers who can blast out the lower order. Its not completely unreasonable to expect 30-40 runs, which would have been the 3rd biggest partnership in the innings. I'd rather take 30-40 extra runs than taking the chance of getting anyone out in three overs. And if you do get someone out - it'd be Sehwag or Vijay. Meh. Big deal.