Geoff Armstrong- The 100 Greatest Cricketers

[archie mac]

Skill will always be paramount and one of the beauties of cricket is that they are always evolving

In W G Graces time, the "mystery" ball was a googly

Bradman never had to face reverse swing or doosras

Until the late 60s, fieldsmen did not leave their feet to stop a ball

I am sure if the average FC batsman can cope with reverse swing then the greatest batsman ever would not have too much trouble

Bradman ate spinners for breakfast can't see the doosra being a problem tbh

 

[sobers no:1]

Trying to estimate what Bradman would average in the modern game is nothing more than pure speculation and will never reach agreement

For those that say that he would still average around 100, that means that he would be nearly twice as effective as Viv, Sunil and Greg Chappell - I'm calling total bs on that one

For those that say that he would average say 70, that means the likes of Hammond would be nothing more than average batsmen or slightly above

I treat the Don in the same way as I treat Babe Ruth - rather than picking holes in their resume (e.g. the Babe never played with or against the races that dominate modern day baseball), it's best just to respect their achievements and afford them the place in history they deserve

wht abt this?
BRADMAN / WG IS ARGUABLY GREATEST BATSMAN / PLAYER EVER .

 

[Coronis]

wht abt this?
BRADMAN / WG IS ARGUABLY GREATEST BATSMAN / PLAYER EVER .

They are. They are the only two contenders in my opinion, depending on how you judge the players. Perhaps Sobers too.

 

[social]

I am sure if the average FC batsman can cope with reverse swing then the greatest batsman ever would not have too much trouble

Bradman ate spinners for breakfast can't see the doosra being a problem tbh

Pure speculation

Bradman never faced a spinner that could bowl a doosra, never faced a spinner that was remotely in Murali's class and never played in the subcontinent

As for reverse swing, what have you been watching?

At 90 mph, it is arguably the most deadly form of bowling ever devised (Waqar Younis anyone?), Bradman never faced anything like it and the average FC batsman certainly cannot cope with it

 

[smash84]

I am sure if the average FC batsman can cope with reverse swing then the greatest batsman ever would not have too much trouble

I think you might be stretching it dude that he wouldn't have too much trouble.

waqar younis yorker to lara and clean bowled A toe crusher - YouTube

 

[archie mac]

Pure speculation

Bradman never faced a spinner that could bowl a doosra, never faced a spinner that was remotely in Murali's class and never played in the subcontinent

As for reverse swing, what have you been watching?

At 90 mph, it is arguably the most deadly form of bowling ever devised (Waqar Younis anyone?), Bradman never faced anything like it and the average FC batsman certainly cannot cope with it

You're being silly, if average Test players can face the doosra why would the best ever not be able to? Of course it's speculation, what are you doing if not speculating?

WY was good but I don't remember him bowling every team out for less than 50. Otherwise cricket would be over. Just silly to think modern batsman can handle it but the best ever would fail. WY also played county cricket surely he bowled reverse swing in county matches can't remember him destroying batting line ups every time in reverse swing. And you are talking about one bowler.

As for Bradman on sub con. please his average would have been 149.94

The same argument was used to discredit WG when comparing him to Bradman in the 1930s in that he never faced a googly.

 

[archie mac]

I think you might be stretching it dude that he wouldn't have too much trouble.

waqar younis yorker to lara and clean bowled A toe crusher - YouTube

Good ball. So he bowled that everytime? Bradman was bowled by great deliveries just like every batsman.

So Bradman plays in the modern era and everytime he faces a ball like that

 

[akilana]

Murali and Warne were too easy for Lara and Sachin. Imagine them bowling to Bradman. I'm sure they are happy they didn't have to bowl to him.

 

[akilana]

I think you might be stretching it dude that he wouldn't have too much trouble.

waqar younis yorker to lara and clean bowled A toe crusher - YouTube

Lara wasn't too great against pace. Bradman would have dilscooped it for six. I'm very sure about that.

 

[smash84]

Lara wasn't too great against pace. Bradman would have dilscooped it for six. I'm very sure about that.

 

[smash84]

Good ball. So he bowled that everytime? Bradman was bowled by great deliveries just like every batsman.

So Bradman plays in the modern era and everytime he faces a ball like that

No, but he would get these types of deliveries often, and many times before he gets to 100

 

[archie mac]

No, but he would get these types of deliveries often, and many times before he gets to 100

I wonder, he was such a quick study. I imagine he would be found out once or twice but then he would have taken control.


After WWII Bedser had Bradman caught by Hutton in a leg trap, which was the brain child of Bill O'Reilly. Bedser had him out three times, but Bradman soon worked it out and was not troubled again. This at the age of 40 when he said he was well past his best. I imagine the Bradman who we will bring in to modern times would be aged 28, experienced and still in his prime

 

[social]

You're being silly, if average Test players can face the doosra why would the best ever not be able to? Of course it's speculation, what are you doing if not speculating?

WY was good but I don't remember him bowling every team out for less than 50. Otherwise cricket would be over. Just silly to think modern batsman can handle it but the best ever would fail. WY also played county cricket surely he bowled reverse swing in county matches can't remember him destroying batting line ups every time in reverse swing. And you are talking about one bowler.

As for Bradman on sub con. please his average would have been 149.94

The same argument was used to discredit WG when comparing him to Bradman in the 1930s in that he never faced a googly.

Average test players fared so well against Murali that he ended up with 800 test wickets @ 22!

As for Waqar, yes he was good and 370 test wickets at 23 is testament to that

What's more, he played for Pakistan, a country that is so batsman friendly that DK Lillee refused to go back after his first visit and where Greg Chappell claimed conditions were boring as they offered nothing for the bowler

However, the most interesting thing about Waqar was that despite the fact that he was undoubtedly better than any pace bowler that Bradman faced, he wasnt even the best in his team

Anyway, Bradman may well have averaged 149.94 in the subcontinent but to do so he would need to average 500 against Bangladesh as NOBODY was going to destroy peak Wasim and Waqar consistently

 

[archie mac]

Average test players fared so well against Murali that he ended up with 800 test wickets @ 22!

As for Waqar, yes he was good and 370 test wickets at 23 is testament to that

What's more, he played for Pakistan, a country that is so batsman friendly that DK Lillee refused to go back after his first visit and where Greg Chappell claimed conditions were boring as they offered nothing for the bowler

However, the most interesting thing about Waqar was that despite the fact that he was undoubtedly better than any pace bowler that Bradman faced, he wasnt even the best in his team

Anyway, Bradman may well have averaged 149.94 in the subcontinent but that would be because he averaged 500 against Bangladesh

I don't remember saying they were not great bowlers, but they are not the only bowlers to average under 24, show me how many batsman average over 99?

 

[Red]

Bringing Bradman in to the present day would mean he would have to face some ferocious giants of pace bowling indeed...

Sharma
Sreesanth
Martin
Bracewell
Gazi
Hasan...


For every Waqar, there's 20 Sreesanths.

Bradman would annihilate the modern era, same as he did back then.

 

[social]

I don't remember saying they were not great bowlers, but they are not the only bowlers to average under 24, show me how many batsman average over 99?

I have never said that Bradman wasnt the greatest of all time - in light of his record, it is just nonsense to do so IMO

However, assuming that he would perform at the same level irrespective of the era in which he played is equally as foolhardy

Take the late 70s - 80s, every single test playing nation had a pace bowler that was at least as good as anything he faced in his entire career e.g. Lillee - Oz, Willis (debateable but great record) - Eng, Imran - Pakistan, NZ - Hadlee, Kapil Dev - India, and WI had about 5 that would fall into that category

Combined with the bowler friendly conditions (not just the pitches but also the balls and playing conditions) and unfamiliar surroundings (remember that Bradman only played in 2 countries against basically one decent team) and it is not inconceivable that he could have fared a lot worse particularly when you'd have to think that he would be walking to the wicket early on virtually all the time

 

[archie mac]

I have never said that Bradman wasnt the greatest of all time - in light of his record, it is just nonsense to do so IMO

However, assuming that he would perform at the same level irrespective of the era in which he played is equally as foolhardy

Take the late 70s - 80s, every single test playing nation had a pace bowler that was at least as good as anything he faced in his entire career e.g. Lillee - Oz, Willis (debateable but great record) - Eng, Imran - Pakistan, NZ - Hadlee, Kapil Dev - India, and WI had about 5 that would fall into that category

Combined with the bowler friendly conditions (not just the pitches but also the balls and playing conditions) and unfamiliar surroundings (remember that Bradman only played in 2 countries against basically one decent team) and it is not inconceivable that he could have fared a lot worse particularly when you'd have to think that he would be walking to the wicket early on virtually all the time

Larwood, Farnes, Voce and Tate were pretty good bowlers. I suppose we will never know, my money is on Bradman to still average 80+

 

[centurymaker]

I have never said that Bradman wasnt the greatest of all time - in light of his record, it is just nonsense to do so IMO

However, assuming that he would perform at the same level irrespective of the era in which he played is equally as foolhardy

Take the late 70s - 80s, every single test playing nation had a pace bowler that was at least as good as anything he faced in his entire career e.g. Lillee - Oz, Willis (debateable but great record) - Eng, Imran - Pakistan, NZ - Hadlee, Kapil Dev - India, and WI had about 5 that would fall into that category

Combined with the bowler friendly conditions (not just the pitches but also the balls and playing conditions) and unfamiliar surroundings (remember that Bradman only played in 2 countries against basically one decent team) and it is not inconceivable that he could have fared a lot worse particularly when you'd have to think that he would be walking to the wicket early on virtually all the time

yeah even if he had done extremely well, I don't think he would've been able to maintain it for 100+ tests at the same average. Diminishing returns set in at a certain stage. (as you play more, it becomes more difficult to sustain a high average so avg tends to fall)

 

[vic_orthdox]

yeah even if he had done extremely well, I don't think he would've been able to maintain it for 100+ tests at the same average. Diminishing returns set in at a certain stage. (as you play more, it becomes more difficult to sustain a high average so avg tends to fall)

The bloke did play over 20 years...

 

[sobers no:1]

They are. They are the only two contenders in my opinion, depending on how you judge the players. Perhaps Sobers too.

3 contenders for greatest player ever.

1. sobers
2. wg
3. don

7-8 contenders for greatest batsman ever (including above 3)

you can not make a case for lara/hadlee being greatest cricketer ever, but lara/hadlee > wg/bradman is arguable.
for sobers his worst ranking should be no:3 (after wg/bradman)