The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[smash84]

 

[watson]

Why Lawry over Trumper, Morris, Hayden or Ponsford in your AUS XI, watson?

Admittedly it's difficult to look past Bill Lawry's big nose, his rather over the top TV commentary, and the paronoid batting that infected his late career. He obviously lacks the charisma of someone like Victor Trumper or Arthur Morris.

But if you do peer behind the facade you find a batsman who scored some truly great centuries against some awesome attacks. I don't think that Trumper, Morris, Hayden, or Ponsford scored runs of the same 'quality' on such a consistent basis.

 

[ankitj]

Please justify what you say about Pollock. It's your opinion FFS, not a fact like you seem to make it out to be.

Much like how I would respond too, but I didn't. Kyear has this peculiar habit.

 

[watson]

Centuries by Bill Lawry

210 Barbados 1965: Hall, Griffith, Sobers, Gibbs
205 MCG 1968: Edwards, Davis, Sobers, Gibbs
166 Brisbane 1965: Brown, Higgs, Titmus, Allen
157 MCG 1964: Pollock, Goddard, Partridge, Seymour
151 SCG 1969: Hall, Griffith, Sobers, Gibbs
135 The Oval 1968: Snow, Brown, Underwood, Illingworth
130 Lords 1961: Trueman, Statham, Lock, Illingworth
119 Adelaide 1966: Brown, Jones, Allen, Titmus
108 MCG 1966: Brown, Jones, Knight, Titmus
106 Old Trafford 1964 : Cartwright, Price, Rumsay, Mortimore, Titmus
105 Brisbane 1968: Griffith, Holford, Sobers, Gibbs
102 Old Trafford 1961: Trueman, Statham, Flavell, Allen
100 MCG 1968: Prasanna, Chandrasekhar, Desai, Subramanya


Trueman
Statham
Snow
Underwood
Hall
Griffith
Gibbs
Pollock
Prasanna
Chandrasekhar

I think that's a pretty impressive list of bowlers to score tons against. Definitely much better than what Morris had to face, and probably better than what Trumper, Ponsford and Hayden had to face.

 

[Mike5181]

What's a South African all-time XI look like now?

 

[Jager]

Much like how I would respond to, but I didn't. Kyear has this peculiar habit.

Yeah it infuriates me, one of the very few things on forums that get on my nerves.

What's a South African all-time XI look like now?

Mine would be...

1. Barry Richards ^
2. Bruce Mitchell
3. Jacques Kallis - 5 ^
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse
6. Aubrey Faulkner* - 6
7. John Waite +
8. Mike Procter - 1 ^
9. Hugh Tayfield - 4
10. Allan Donald - 2
11. Dale Steyn - 3

Admittedly unsure on who would captain that side - I don't know enough to justify an opinion there. Bowling order could naturally be changed around to anyone's liking too - just as long as Procter's first

 

[Daemon]

I'd have Tahir over Tayfield

 

[Jager]

Jager's favourites 11

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Bob Simpson - 7 ^
3. Neil Harvey ^
4. Jacques Kallis - 6 ^
5. Keith Miller - 3 ^
6. Mike Procter - 2
7. Archie Jackson
8. Richie Benaud* - 5
9. Shane Warne - 4
10. Malcolm Marshall - 1
11. Bob Taylor †

12. Fazal Mahmood
13. Alan Davidson

 

[Mike5181]

Favourites:

1. Matthew Sinclair
2. Nathan Astle
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Martin Crowe
5. Mark Waugh
6. Adam Gilchrist+
7. Christopher Cairns
8. Shane Warne
9. Brett Lee
10. Shane Bond
11. Dale Steyn

Martyn, Hussey, Kallis, Lara are up there as well.

 

[Jager]

Very modern side, surprised Paddles didn't get in Mikey.

 

[Mike5181]

Outside some Youtube videos, I haven't seen much of the players before 99ish. Watched quite a lot of Crowe's innings just recently.

 

[kyear2]

Please justify what you say about Pollock. It's your opinion FFS, not a fact like you seem to make it out to be.

Shaun Pollock in my estimation was not as good a strike bowler Marshall, Ambrose, Garner or Holding. His high strike rate of over 57 and only 16 five fors in 108 tests says to me he was a very good support bowler and a clear no. 2 to Donald.
Also from watching him bowl he also seemed too often to be in control mode rather than wicket taking mode which especially on the wickets he played on at home wan't quite good enough.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah it infuriates me, one of the very few things on forums that get on my nerves.



Mine would be...

1. Barry Richards ^
2. Bruce Mitchell
3. Jacques Kallis - 5 ^
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse
6. Aubrey Faulkner* - 6
7. John Waite +
8. Mike Procter - 1 ^
9. Hugh Tayfield - 4
10. Allan Donald - 2
11. Dale Steyn - 3

Admittedly unsure on who would captain that side - I don't know enough to justify an opinion there. Bowling order could naturally be changed around to anyone's liking too - just as long as Procter's first

Very strong team there, no faults really. Nourse did captain a few after the second war.

I'd have Tahir over Tayfield

Funniest post I've seen in some time.

Jager's favourites 11

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Bob Simpson - 7 ^
3. Neil Harvey ^
4. Jacques Kallis - 6 ^
5. Keith Miller - 3 ^
6. Mike Procter - 2
7. Archie Jackson
8. Richie Benaud* - 5
9. Shane Warne - 4
10. Malcolm Marshall - 1
11. Bob Taylor †

12. Fazal Mahmood
13. Alan Davidson

Jackson batting at 7?



Anyways, my favourites would probably look something like this.

1. Sid Barnes
2. Herbert Sutcliffe ---- I may be the only one, but, so much for him.
3. Bill Ponsford
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Shiv Chanderpaul
6. Jacques Kallis
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Mike Procter
9. Muttiah Muralitharan
10. Clarrie Grimmett
11. Glenn McGrath

12. Sydney Barnes

Breaks my heart to leave out Syd Barnes, but Procter + McGrath is just a dream for me. Cannot go past Grimmett and Murali either, both capable of bowling long spells if needed. (and two of the best stories in cricket!!!) Could possibly, POSSIBLY remove Shiv and add an extra bowler. But, unneeded.

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee was not vastly better than Marshall, but I believe him to be significantly better from what I saw on the TV,

In the early 80s he was one of only 2-3 Kiwi batsman who had any idea against Dennis Lillee. I remember the following 50 by Hadlee as if it were yesterday. The team score was 152 all out;

1st Test: Australia v New Zealand at Brisbane, Nov 28-30, 1980 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Hadlee's and Marshall's record againts Australia are virtually identicle and take away Hadlee's 47 avg vs minnow Sri lanka really isn't much in it between the two as batsmen. Marshall also didn't commit himself as a batsman as he should have and didn't get the most out of his ability. No where as good as good as Imram, but good enough.

 

[fredfertang]

Hadlee's and Marshall's record againts Australia are virtually identicle and take away Hadlee's 47 avg vs minnow Sri lanka really isn't much in it between the two as batsmen. Marshall also didn't commit himself as a batsman as he should have and didn't get the most out of his ability. No where as good as good as Imram, but good enough.

If Maco hadn't been able to bowl I reckon he'd have been a top class batsman - he could really look the part sometimes, and when he didn't I always got the impression he just wasn't too fussed rather than not good enough

 

[Jager]

@Coronis I knew someone would mention Jackson at 7, I just like the idea of having Procter at 6 batting with Miller. Would be mayhem. Obviously it'd be far smarter to bat Procter at 7 though.

Don't worry, I love Sutcliffe too - opens the batting for my ATG team (the one that ruthlessly wins matches, not the one that I'd enjoy the most).

 

[kyear2]

If I wanted to bat to eleven:

1 Hobbs
2 Grace
3 Bradman
4 Tendulkar
5 Headley
6 Sobers
7 Gilchrist
8 Imran
9 Benaud
10 Hadlee
11 Marshall

Which is incidentally just straight up my usual team with Benaud in for Murali.

Outside of Sobers, who wil man the slip cordon?

 

[Daemon]

Jager's favourites 11

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Bob Simpson - 7 ^
3. Neil Harvey ^
4. Jacques Kallis - 6 ^
5. Keith Miller - 3 ^
6. Mike Procter - 2
7. Archie Jackson
8. Richie Benaud* - 5
9. Shane Warne - 4
10. Malcolm Marshall - 1
11. Bob Taylor †

12. Fazal Mahmood
13. Alan Davidson

14. Brad Hodge

 

[kyear2]

@Coronis I knew someone would mention Jackson at 7, I just like the idea of having Procter at 6 batting with Miller. Would be mayhem. Obviously it'd be far smarter to bat Procter at 7 though.

Don't worry, I love Sutcliffe too - opens the batting for my ATG team (the one that ruthlessly wins matches, not the one that I'd enjoy the most).

Have you decided on who your fast bowlers are as yet?

 

[Dan]

The XI to appease kyear

1. Bob Simpson (1)
2. Jack Hobbs (Point)
3. Viv Richards (Cover)
4. Greg Chappell (3)
5. Gary Sobers (2)
6. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
7. Ian Botham (4)
8. Richie Benaud (Gully)
9. Malcolm Marshall
10. Dale Steyn (Long Leg)
11. Muttiah Muralitharan (Mid On)

Fielding positions for the first over.