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India Post Mortem Thread
- Thread starter Cevno
- Start date
Teja.
Global Moderator
If the rampant educated guesses are true and Fletcher is actually enforcing the entire '140 kph or GTFO' policy in Indian cricket, He really needs to be shown the door, to be honest. I think it's bad cricketing strategy even prima facie but enforcing it in India - which is a completely different beast compared to England - is absolutely suicidal to our hopes.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
A problem with having Fletcher or anyone as a coach of India is the players are such huge stars that you can't tell these players what to do. Fletcher came in after winning a World Cup and top of the test rankings with a number of players having god like statuses. The players and BCCI were untouchable.
He can't mould the team in the way he wants because he has no power. England were **** for years and the players weren't revered by the public. England players and the board were willing to listen. It's clear that the Indian team needed reform but it didn't happen. Maybe Fletcher doesn't care. Maybe Fletcher has tried to change things around but the players didn't want to listen. Maybe Fletcher tried to get the board to change players but they were happy with their continually increasing profits and didn't want to eschew their brands.
One gets the impression that Fletcher doesn't seem too worried. But given he doesn't give press conferences and never really gave much away when he was with England, who the **** knows?
Until the players and the adminstators realise that they need to move on from the complacency that has come as a result of recent success and great players, there isn't a lot an outsider with limited power can do imo.
Put Ganguly in charge of Indian cricket imo. Would be fun.
He can't mould the team in the way he wants because he has no power. England were **** for years and the players weren't revered by the public. England players and the board were willing to listen. It's clear that the Indian team needed reform but it didn't happen. Maybe Fletcher doesn't care. Maybe Fletcher has tried to change things around but the players didn't want to listen. Maybe Fletcher tried to get the board to change players but they were happy with their continually increasing profits and didn't want to eschew their brands.
One gets the impression that Fletcher doesn't seem too worried. But given he doesn't give press conferences and never really gave much away when he was with England, who the **** knows?
Until the players and the adminstators realise that they need to move on from the complacency that has come as a result of recent success and great players, there isn't a lot an outsider with limited power can do imo.
Put Ganguly in charge of Indian cricket imo. Would be fun.
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Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
There is no evidence of any players who have been shown to be victims of such a policy. If he was enforcing such a policy, B Kumar would have never made the team. The key selection bowlers regarding bowlers is clear. IPL is not taken seriously enough regarding T20 selection, First Class cricket is used as a criteria for ODI selection and Test selection is from a mismatch of ODI, T20I, IPL and First Class performances whereas it should obviously only be the latter.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
The fact that Ganguly & Dravid, the yin and yang of Indian cricket, are both in the comm box (& making rather decent fists of it, as it goes, but that's besides the point) and not employed by the BCCI in some coaching capacity says everything you need to know.
Whatever Flectcher had when he was in charge of England seems to have long since evaporated.
Whatever Flectcher had when he was in charge of England seems to have long since evaporated.
Contra
Cricketer Of The Year
Why automatically assume Dravid and Ganguly would be interested in such a job? Dravid's barely just retired, I don't think he'd exactly what to coach people so soon, Ganguly is a more likely candidate, but then he was never an exceptional batsmen, not the best fielding coach either and obvs he isn't a bowler so it's a bit difficult in that sense. I think over the next 2-3 years they will hopefully come into play.
Anyhow I think India need to stop with crappy selections first, we shoot ourselves in the foot half the time and make things worse than they need to be when we pick guys like Chawla and Yuvraj for the test format. I honestly hope Yuvraj was given his final chance in that test series vs England. Time to bring in Rahane, and time to ditch Gambhir as well.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Agree regarding Yuvraj. He is only a plausible option in Tests if he is going to bat at seven and be used as a fifth bowler but it seems Dhoni does not like bowling him so that option is out of the window. I don't know why selectors think Yuvraj will necessarily be a good specialist Test batsman, he can play good innings but he lacks the consistency. It is all about getting the likes of Rahane, Rohit and Manoj Tiwary into the team - the proven FC performers and removing the likes of Raina, Yuvraj from reckoning.
smash84
The Tiger King
will this team be built on good batsmen or bowlers?
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Any good team has both.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Didn't have good bowlers over their careers, but the bowlers all did an objectively good job.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
So, Dhoni's captaincy in both forms has gone up the ****ter but if we remove him and BCCI is trying to give him all sorts of confidence boost, but who do we make captain if he's removed ?
Sehwag is doing poorly, Gambhir not much better and Kohli is brash + not responding too well to captaincy talk here.
Sehwag is doing poorly, Gambhir not much better and Kohli is brash + not responding too well to captaincy talk here.
slowfinger
International Debutant
The key there bowling is not to have spearhead bowlers ie Steyns or big egos but the bowlers that they have to bowl as a team and back each other. Pakistan's bowling attack is actually quite mediocre but their discipline has made the team a force to be reckoned with.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
What odds do you want me to give you on India NOT becoming the top Test nation over the next two Years - or during the whole of 2013 and 2014 ?
Just think Manee. All our usual problems are resurfacing. Our attack is now completely devoid of any bowling of class. Yes Bhuvaneshwar looks good but it is far too early and he is just one guy. If we are going to predict a bright future based on untried talent, we should at least have a few of them for all will not fulfill the early promise. One, even if he does, doesn't even constitute an attack.
Can you count the number of pacers we have raved about in the last 6-7 years ? Let me recall . . .
Balaji, Sreesanth, Munaf Patel, Irfan Pathan, RP Singh, VR Singh, Vinay Kumar, . . .Thats seven and I am sure I must have missed someone. We are still struggling and waiting for not just an injured but an ELDERLY Zaheer to come back and take lead of the attack. Zaheer is needed because our hyped up young talent remains just that . . . hype. (Edited and added later)
The opening batting slot is in complete disarray. Sehwag has hit a low point from which, I do think he is capable of recovering but time is not going to wait for him eternally. Gambhir has serious technical issues which have been there for some time and are now being exploited by each and every pacer in the world worth his salt. Unless we ensure we play on abslutely dead surfaces, at home and abroad, he is going to struggle until he goes to the drawing board and works on developing some sort of back foot defence. So far he doesn't seem to have taken even the first step towards it. This is where Sehwag and Gambhir differ from Sachin and Dravid. Those two would work on their problems and try to oversome them. These two want to brazen it out. That wont work against quality bowling on even slightly helpful tracks.
Finally the two areas where we never did have problems - spinners and the middle order - are looking very modest in comparison to what we have enjoyed since the early seventies. This is not to run down Kohli, Pujara, Yuvraj, Raina and company but just see how the present lot looks in comparison to what we have had in the last four decades
1970's
- Vengsarkar
- Vishwanath
- Amarnath
- Sardesai/Wadekar
- Brijesh Patel/Yashpal Sharma
1980's
- Amarnath
- Vengsarkar
- Azharuddin
- Yashal Sharma
- Shastri
- Kapil Dev
- Vishwanath
1990's
- Tendulkar
- Azharuddin
- Manjrekar
- Dravid
- Ganguly
- Siddhu
- Kapil Dev
2000's
- Dravid
- Tendulkar
- Ganguly
- Laxman
Compare this with what we have today. Pujara is the saving grace and Kohli has talent. Tendulkar is on his last legs. Rohit Sharma is yet to play his first Test match. Yuvraj has played nearly 50 and is considered not good enough yet! Rains, isn't good enough. This is not comparable to what we had - the best middle order seen in the world for a very long time which made up for a lot of our other deficiencies.
Finally the spin. Kumble is gone. Harbhajan had been on decline and played a few years only on past hype and the fond hope that he would come back. That hope is finished. Ashwin is not the world class spinner that India is known for. Ojha is not bad but no Kumble and no Bhajji as Bhajji once was.
So what do we have to claim we will be number one in next two years?
Hope? Sure. But confidence . . . . ???
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smash84
The Tiger King
Gun post. That posting of the Indian middle order from the 1970s onwards is so telling isn't it? India hasn't really had to face a problem of the middle order. The problem of a complete bowling attack has been there for some time now but add to this the batting unit and it does indeed become very difficult to see a top class team emerging in the next 2 years.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Dhoni named India Cements VP, Srini friendship hits new high | Firstpost
This is a Bloody farce now, if true.
This is a Bloody farce now, if true.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
What's more it Seems like Aswhin and Pujara missing Irani to play in this cement mans tournament, which is not even a List A event.
India Cricket News: Dhoni, Ashwin and Pujara in Corporate Trophy squads | ESPN Cricinfo
India Cricket News: MS Dhoni says no to Irani Cup | ESPN Cricinfo
Bloody hell, this better not be true.
India Cricket News: Dhoni, Ashwin and Pujara in Corporate Trophy squads | ESPN Cricinfo
India Cricket News: MS Dhoni says no to Irani Cup | ESPN Cricinfo
Bloody hell, this better not be true.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Sorry for being pedantic, I get your point and am somewhat in agreement but Dravid and Ganguly were hardly the players we have known them to be back in the 90s when they started...in fact...I would say there is not a lot of difference between Dravid-Ganguly in 96 and Kohli-Pujara today..I might even argue that Kohli today is better than Dravid-Ganguly in 96..Siddhu is not world class by any means.. The only two you can talk about are Tendulkar and Azharuddin..
I think in terms of batting, India is no worse or no better than it was in the 90s..and if 90s led us to have Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman in the 2000s..I don't see why India cannot have great batsmen in this decade..
Bowling is a different matter though..
smash84
The Tiger King
wow....itstl, Is first post a reliable website?