Pakistan ATG Team - Open Voting

[kyear2]

From all I have read, he was a quick spinner like O'Reilly, Verity and Underwood.

 

[smash84]

you haven't read a lot it seems

 

[marc71178]

To me 1 - 7, W.I has the better line up, especially considering Miller and to a lesser extent Border.

Achieved of course by crow barring in a part timer.

 

[kyear2]

Legally.

 

[L Trumper]

From all I have read, he was a quick spinner like O'Reilly, Verity and Underwood.

Can you point to any sources? Because AFAIK no one really says that.

 

[ankitj]

Barnes remains one of the most mysterious cricketer of past. Anyone knows why hasn't anyone else tried his methods when they were so successful.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Barnes remains one of the most mysterious cricketer of past. Anyone knows why hasn't anyone else tried his methods when they were so successful.

Wouldn't be very surprised if his action was similar to Afridi's, assuming fast leg-breaks were his MO.

 

[Red]

He certainly wasn't a spinner in the conventional sense - did you read the piece I wrote about him (relatively) recently?

Can you link to it please? I've always imagined him to be a bit similar to O'Reilly, but maybe not...

 

[kyear2]

A 1963 tribute by John Arlott. Make of it what you will.

His usual pace was about that of Alec Bedser, with a faster ball and a slower one, in well-concealed reserve, and the ability to bowl a yorker. He himself is content that he was essentially a spin bowler, that his movement through the air was, in modern technical language, swerve - obtained by spin - rather than `swing', which derives from the 'seam-up' method. Certainly he made the ball move both ways through the air, and-with a first and second-finger application rather similar to that of Ramadhin - he bowled both the offbreak and the legbreak. Indeed, he could bowl the googly at about slow-medium pace and where, in exceptional conditions, the pitch dictated it, he could be a fine slow bowler.

 

[fredfertang]

Can you link to it please? I've always imagined him to be a bit similar to O'Reilly, but maybe not...

Here 'tis

 

[Red]

Here 'tis

That's a really great piece. Thanks Fred.

 

[fredfertang]

That's a really great piece. Thanks Fred.

You are most welcome

 

[SJS]

Almost six years ago, I posted my ATG Pakistan team on CC. I don't see much reason to change that . . .

1. Hanif Mohammad
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Zaheer Abbas
4. Javed Miandad
5. Inzemam-ul-Haq
6. Mushtaq Mohammad
7. Imran Khan
8. Wasim Bari
9. Wasim Akram
10. Waqar Younis
11. Fazal Mehmood

I know people tend to leave out Zaheer for his supposed 'weakness' against pace. If we do accept that he was not at his best against top rung real pace (not many are) we cant just forget that he was probably the finest player of spin bowling from Pakistan and an extremely good player of medium fast to fast medium stuff as well.

The only way to drop him from the side is to find a batsman as good as him and much better against the late 70's to late 80's class of West Indian and Australian bowling.

I dont know many players who qualify for either they were not good enough or never faced bowlers as good as that.

The one possibility could be to bring in Mohsin and make him bat in the middle order which is fine as well.

The only Pakistani player I could otherwise bring in who played the fast stuff with aplomb albeit in his own inimitable style is the highly under-rated Asif Iqbal. He was some batsman and a more than useful bowler and an electrifying fielder.

 

[smash84]

Almost six years ago, I posted my ATG Pakistan team on CC. I don't see much reason to change that . . .

1. Hanif Mohammad
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Zaheer Abbas
4. Javed Miandad
5. Inzemam-ul-Haq
6. Mushtaq Mohammad
7. Imran Khan
8. Wasim Bari
9. Wasim Akram
10. Waqar Younis
11. Fazal Mehmood

I know people tend to leave out Zaheer for his supposed 'weakness' against pace. If we do accept that he was not at his best against top rung real pace (not many are) we cant just forget that he was probably the finest player of spin bowling from Pakistan and an extremely good player of medium fast to fast medium stuff as well.

The only way to drop him from the side is to find a batsman as good as him and much better against the late 70's to late 80's class of West Indian and Australian bowling.

I dont know many players who qualify for either they were not good enough or never faced bowlers as good as that.

The one possibility could be to bring in Mohsin and make him bat in the middle order which is fine as well.

The only Pakistani player I could otherwise bring in who played the fast stuff with aplomb albeit in his own inimitable style is the highly under-rated Asif Iqbal. He was some batsman and a more than useful bowler and an electrifying fielder.

You also went ahead with Fazal instead of the spinner.

All the older aunts in my family remember Fazal with that dreamy eyed look. He was Imran Khan before Imran Khan.

Would you rate Asif Iqbal over Mushtaq Mohammad.

 

[centurymaker]

Cricketweb Australia All Time XI
Victor Trumper
Arthur Morris
Sir Donald Bradman *
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn Mcgrath

Ricky Ponting
Allan Davidson

Cricketweb West Indies All Time XI
Gordon Greenidge
Sir Conrad Hunte
George Headley *
Sir I.V.A. Richards
Brian Lara
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Clyde Walcott +
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose
Joel Garner

Frank Worrell
Lance Gibbs

Cricketweb England All Time XI
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Len Hutton *
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Sir Ian Botham
Allan Knott +
Jim Laker
Harold Larwood
Fred Trueman
Syd Barnes

Hedley Verity
Kevin Pietersen

Cricketweb South Africa All Time XI
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith *
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter
John Waite +
Dale Steyn
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

Shaun Pollock
Herbie Taylor

Cricketweb Pakistan All Time XI
Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Imran Khan *
Rashid Latif +
Wasim Akram
Fazal Mahmood
Waqar Younis

Mohammad Yousuf
Saqlain Mushtaq

I think that really, you can't split the Australian, English, WIs and South African teams. It's very difficult to do so.

Australia has the obvious advantage of Bradman. Two attacking openers (a L/R combo). The artistry of Chappell, the determination and skill of Border (LH), Miller and Gilchrist (LH) as attacking weapons with the bat. Brilliant bowling combo, with Lillee, McGrath and Miller to bowl pace and O'Reilly and Warne. In the field they have Chappell, Miller and Border who were all excellent in the cordon (as well as Warne who was decent), and Bradman was a very good cover fields-man.

What sets them apart from the rest?
- Bradman
- High quality spin bowling unit. O'Reilly and Warne would cause serious problems bowling in tandem on day 4 and 5.

England has two very strong opening batsmen (the fact that Sutcliffe missed out attests to this). Hammond, Barrington and Compton in the middle order provide a lot of variety, and skill. Lacking a left handed player in the top 7, which is a shame. Botham capable of shredding a bowling attack with the bat, and Knott is very handy with the willow also. Bowling attack is led by Trueman and Larwood, with Barnes and Laker as spin partners. Botham is the all rounder here, with a knack of picking up vital wickets. Criticism has been levelled at having Botham at 6, with most thinking he is one spot too high for an ATG team. I think it works best for this team to have him there with Knott very capable at 7. In the field Hammond and Botham are both excellent slippers, and Hobbs was a very good cover field. Knott an exceptional keeper.

What sets them apart from the rest?
- Best opening batsmen of all the teams
- Botham is a real x-factor. In a series, he might win two matches almost single-handedly.
- SF Barnes and Laker could be a real handful on the right wicket.

West Indies is a strong team, as you'd expect. Greenidge and Hunte aggressive at the top, and then the middle order is as good as any, and maybe better than the rest as a whole. Headley, Richards, Lara and Sobers, along with Walcott, are a nightmare for the opposition bowlers. Combination of left and right handed aggressive technicians, highly skilled and intimidating. The bowling attack is what is expected- tall, fast and accurate. Four quicks was their modus operandi during the 80s, and it brought them much success. However, with Sobers in the team as a left arm quick, I think there's room for Gibbs as a spinner. As a fielding unit they are excellent, with Viv, Lara, Sobers and Greenidge all good in the cordon, and elsewhere.

What sets them apart from the rest?
- The middle order. Dynamic, powerful and intimidating.
- Four quicks, plus Sobers. On a green wicket, they would be a handful.

South Africa. What is it with South Africa and all-rounders? They seem to produce them at will. Procter, Faulkner and Kallis all front up here. As a batting unit, these guys are special. Richards is spoken of almost reverentially as a batsman by guys like Bradman and Ian Chappell. Smith is ugly, but effective. Kallis is all class, and the guy following him at 4 is even better, a true genius. Nourse was a brilliant batsman capable of holding it all together, while Faulkner, Procter and Waite form a potent middle-lower order. As a bowling unit this team is impressive. Donald and Steyn are similar in many ways, both quick, skilled and nasty. Procter is spoken of very highly as a quick bowler, and Kallis provides excellent support. Tayfield and Faulkner provide a nice spin combo, contrasting each other. Most SAs tend to be good fieldsmen, good in the slips and in the outfield. Richards, Pollock, Kallis and Smith all excellent slippers.

What sets them apart from the rest?
- Three high quality all rounders. They would all walk in to most test teams in history on the basis of either their batting OR their bowling.

You have summed it up brilliantly.

It's near impossible to split the four teams above as they are all more than capable of beating each other.

 

[The Sean]

As good as that South African side is - and it's bloody good - I still personally reckon they're just a notch below the other three. Maybe only half a notch, but still below.

 

[centurymaker]

As good as that South African side is - and it's bloody good - I still personally reckon they're just a notch below the other three. Maybe only half a notch, but still below.

The fact that quite a few of their guys were denied a chance to shine on the international stage and that their players are generally quite under-rated, I can see why people would not rate them as high as the other three.

 

[The Sean]

The fact that quite a few of their guys were denied a chance to shine on the international stage and that their players are generally quite under-rated, I can see why people would not rate them as high as the other three.

I don't think I underrate South African cricketers, I just don't think - looking at the players there - that team is quite as good as the other three.

 

[kyear2]

Dont think England is as strong as the top two teams either. Apart from the openers, their batting line up is not as strong as the West Indies and the lack the difference makers through the line up that Australia has. Their bowling is not as powerful as the W.I. and while as diverse as the Australians they are not of the same quality, especially when not in helpful conditions.

 

[Bouncer]

Almost six years ago, I posted my ATG Pakistan team on CC. I don't see much reason to change that . . .

1. Hanif Mohammad
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Zaheer Abbas
4. Javed Miandad
5. Inzemam-ul-Haq
6. Mushtaq Mohammad
7. Imran Khan
8. Wasim Bari
9. Wasim Akram
10. Waqar Younis
11. Fazal Mehmood

I know people tend to leave out Zaheer for his supposed 'weakness' against pace. If we do accept that he was not at his best against top rung real pace (not many are) we cant just forget that he was probably the finest player of spin bowling from Pakistan and an extremely good player of medium fast to fast medium stuff as well.

The only way to drop him from the side is to find a batsman as good as him and much better against the late 70's to late 80's class of West Indian and Australian bowling.

I dont know many players who qualify for either they were not good enough or never faced bowlers as good as that.

The one possibility could be to bring in Mohsin and make him bat in the middle order which is fine as well.

The only Pakistani player I could otherwise bring in who played the fast stuff with aplomb albeit in his own inimitable style is the highly under-rated Asif Iqbal. He was some batsman and a more than useful bowler and an electrifying fielder.

Saqlain in for Fazal and Asif in for Mushtaq will make Pak ATG amazingly versatile and balanced, you got to have a full time spinner in the Pak ATG otherwise other ATG teams would find this Pak attack little one dimensional.