***Official*** England in India

[SS1]

I've noticed in more than one sport that whenever England win it's only because the opposition were crap.

I think England are a 'great' team. Don't get me wrong its only following this series I am happy to label them as that. You have to be great to win in both Australia and India within 2 years of one another. And to win in the manners they appear to be doing, possibly 3-1 in both cases is damn impressive.

I believe after going to Number 1, they didn't have the first clue how to handle it at all, they lacked the patience to play sub continental cricket and they didn't realise just how hard SA were going to come at them in England. Following this series, I would back England to win in Sri Lanka and to not lose in the UAE. They have cottoned on to simply occupying the crease IMO. There is little doubt that England like to score quickly and in the UAE and SL they just couldn't get used to not doing that. With that lesson learnt they are doing what they are doing to India in India. Nobody wins in India, nobody. The SA lot that targeted the England series hugely haven't done it and they've faced the same weakened India. I am looking forward to seeing England when they next face SA immensely because there will be a different focus and I think they are seriously evenly matched. SA and England are far ahead of the rest in Test match cricket IMO.

I expect over the next couple of years to see England complete victory after victory after victory. They have one of the best batting line ups, best seamers, best spinners, best keeper/bat.

 

[Cabinet96]

BB I agree with you, I love Bresnan but it has got to the stage now where he should be dropped and I wouldn't take him to NZ. Let him have an op if he needs one and then get fully fit and firing for Yorkshire in Division 1. If he has totally lost the extra nip then sadly his test career looks over. Maybe the NZ tour is a chance to look at Woakes?

Yeah, agree with this. I really rate the work Bresnan did pre elbow injury, but he's clearly not been the same bowler since. Woakes is currently in NZ, so I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go off there instead of picking him in the performance squad with the NZ tour in mind. The conditions in New Zealand will likely suit him as well.

Reckon Anderson and Finn are shoe inns for the first test in NZ. If Broad isn't fully fit or in form, they could go with Woakes to boost the batting.

 

[BoyBrumby]

NZ definitely the country most likely to assist Woakes's type of bowling. Still not 100% sold on him as a serious test bowler tho.

Speaking of medium/fast seamers who bat a bit: I see James Harris (now ex of Glamorgan) has been called into the T20 squad to cover Broad's absence.

 

[Furball]

Would be interested in seeing a HotSpot of Pujara's dismissal. Unless there's a camera angle I've not seen, it looks like it might have tickled his glove.

 

[Cabinet96]

NZ definitely the country most likely to assist Woakes's type of bowling. Still not 100% sold on him as a serious test bowler tho.

Speaking of medium/fast seamers who bat a bit: I see James Harris (now ex of Glamorgan) has been called into the T20 squad to cover Broad's absence.

Woakes is still only 23, so I'm hoping he can add a couple of yards in the next few years. Could become a genuine all rounder too.

 

[Prince EWS]

Woakes is still only 23, so I'm hoping he can add a couple of yards in the next few years. Could become a genuine all rounder too.

I think the general feeling is that, especially with all the injuries he keeps having, he's more likely to move further up the order and bowl less as he develops than he is to add pace.

 

[Teja.]

How fast is Woakes? Early to mid 80s from what I remember but could be slightly off.

 

[Prince EWS]

How fast is Woakes? Early to mid 80s from what I remember but could be slightly off.

Spot on.

 

[smash84]

I think England are a 'great' team. Don't get me wrong its only following this series I am happy to label them as that. You have to be great to win in both Australia and India within 2 years of one another. And to win in the manners they appear to be doing, possibly 3-1 in both cases is damn impressive.

I believe after going to Number 1, they didn't have the first clue how to handle it at all, they lacked the patience to play sub continental cricket and they didn't realise just how hard SA were going to come at them in England. Following this series, I would back England to win in Sri Lanka and to not lose in the UAE. They have cottoned on to simply occupying the crease IMO. There is little doubt that England like to score quickly and in the UAE and SL they just couldn't get used to not doing that. With that lesson learnt they are doing what they are doing to India in India. Nobody wins in India, nobody. The SA lot that targeted the England series hugely haven't done it and they've faced the same weakened India. I am looking forward to seeing England when they next face SA immensely because there will be a different focus and I think they are seriously evenly matched. SA and England are far ahead of the rest in Test match cricket IMO.

I expect over the next couple of years to see England complete victory after victory after victory. They have one of the best batting line ups, best seamers, best spinners, best keeper/bat.

errr....NO

India have just been ****e......

While England have definitely played well but watching the series, the batting dismissals, i**** running in to bowl, and a toothless ashwin (post 1st test) surely point to a not so good India.

the fact that England got found out in the UAE and Sri Lanka was because of bowling. Unfortunately India don't have that.

Also Except in the spin department the SA attack is clearly superior to the English.

Batting wise too Smith = Cook

Amla and Kallis > than anything England have on offer (although Pietersen vs Amla would definitely be close)

and as a batsman Ab Dev > Prior

 

[Furball]

We didn't get "found out" in Sri Lanka ffs.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dunno. Herath's a cut above anything India have.

 

[smash84]

We didn't get "found out" in Sri Lanka ffs.

 

[SS1]

errr....NO

India have just been ****e......

While England have definitely played well but watching the series, the batting dismissals, i**** running in to bowl, and a toothless ashwin (post 1st test) surely point to a not so good India.

the fact that England got found out in the UAE and Sri Lanka was because of bowling. Unfortunately India don't have that.

Also Except in the spin department the SA attack is clearly superior to the English.

Batting wise too Smith = Cook

Amla and Kallis > than anything England have on offer (although Pietersen vs Amla would definitely be close)

and as a batsman Ab Dev > Prior

It is far too simplistic to just say, India have been poor. They walked the first Test and after England's struggles in the SC in general, it would have been very easy to just give it up. How do you summise Ashwin has now become 'toothless' in the space of 3 weeks ?!?!? Its because England are batting far, far better. England drew in SL, not really 'found out'. In the UAE they just didn't have a clue. I honestly don't think they had any idea how to go about it. Its took them a good 3 tours on SC Test cricket to learn. SL's bowling is by no means great either. They have Herath who isn't that great at all. No bigger a threat than Ojha for India IMHO.

WRT the SA series. South Africa clearly targeted the England series, in the same manner that England did the Australian one. Their top order was sublime, all of them and that doesn't happen very often. I don't see the point in comparisons as batsmen because form is massive to that comparison. I think the bowlers aren't far away either. Steyn and Anderson clearly both fantastic. Morkel is great but equally Tahir v Swann or Panesar ? I'd take both English spinners before Tahir.

Prior I wouldn't swap for any keeper/bat in the world. He is absolutely fantastic.

 

[smash84]

It is far too simplistic to just say, India have been poor. They walked the first Test and after England's struggles in the SC in general, it would have been very easy to just give it up. How do you summise Ashwin has now become 'toothless' in the space of 3 weeks ?!?!? Its because England are batting far, far better. England drew in SL, not really 'found out'. In the UAE they just didn't have a clue. I honestly don't think they had any idea how to go about it. Its took them a good 3 tours on SC Test cricket to learn. SL's bowling is by no means great either. They have Herath who isn't that great at all. No bigger a threat than Ojha for India IMHO.

WRT the SA series. South Africa clearly targeted the England series, in the same manner that England did the Australian one. Their top order was sublime, all of them and that doesn't happen very often. I don't see the point in comparisons as batsmen because form is massive to that comparison. I think the bowlers aren't far away either. Steyn and Anderson clearly both fantastic. Morkel is great but equally Tahir v Swann or Panesar ? I'd take both English spinners before Tahir.

Prior I wouldn't swap for any keeper/bat in the world. He is absolutely fantastic.

Steyn > Anderson
Philanderer > Finn
Morkel > Broad

SA's pace dept easily outplays the English seamers.

SA pretty much have no spinners but they don't really need one atm.

man to man SA is just a better team.

And I do think that Herath is significantly better than Ojha.

 

[SS1]

Steyn > Anderson
Philanderer > Finn
Morkel > Broad

SA's pace dept easily outplays the English seamers.

SA pretty much have no spinners but they don't really need one atm.

man to man SA is just a better team.

And I do think that Herath is significantly better than Ojha.

In a combined side I'd have Steyn and Morkel with Anderson and Swann as the bowlers. Thats two a piece.

In the batting....

Smith
Cook
Amla
Kallis
Pietersen
AB
Prior

That makes a combined side altogether as SA 7 to Eng 4, which is about right IMO. That series in England was basically won by Amla and Kallis. They were incredible. Amla is the best batsman in the world IMO and Kallis is an all time great. No shame in losing that series. However, I still don't believe there is a lot between the two sides. Could be great viewing over the next few years between those two.

 

[Furball]

England and South Africa won't meet again for 3 years.

 

[SS1]

England and South Africa won't meet again for 3 years.

Unfortunately not. However, the core elements of both sides should still be there I'd imagine.

 

[Howe_zat]

Really has been done to death, all this.

 

[Burgey]

I think England are a 'great' team. Don't get me wrong its only following this series I am happy to label them as that. You have to be great to win in both Australia and India within 2 years of one another. And to win in the manners they appear to be doing, possibly 3-1 in both cases is damn impressive.

I believe after going to Number 1, they didn't have the first clue how to handle it at all, they lacked the patience to play sub continental cricket and they didn't realise just how hard SA were going to come at them in England. Following this series, I would back England to win in Sri Lanka and to not lose in the UAE. They have cottoned on to simply occupying the crease IMO. There is little doubt that England like to score quickly and in the UAE and SL they just couldn't get used to not doing that. With that lesson learnt they are doing what they are doing to India in India. Nobody wins in India, nobody. The SA lot that targeted the England series hugely haven't done it and they've faced the same weakened India. I am looking forward to seeing England when they next face SA immensely because there will be a different focus and I think they are seriously evenly matched. SA and England are far ahead of the rest in Test match cricket IMO.

I expect over the next couple of years to see England complete victory after victory after victory. They have one of the best batting line ups, best seamers, best spinners, best keeper/bat.

They just got beaten at home by SA. Great teams don't lose at home.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

They just got beaten at home by SA. Great teams don't lose at home.

Agree with that.

One thing I have been mulling over and will now put to the masses is that England underperformed against SA in the summer thanks to the KP bobbins and the same could be argued about India in this series with Tendulkar. I have no doubt in my mind that in their own ways SA dropped lucky with the timing of the England tour just as England have dropped lucky about this India tour. If both series took place 12 months later I wouldn't have been surprised at vastly different outcomes thanks to greater stability in both home sides.

Wouldn't be surprised if we regain number 1 within a year, doesn't make us a great side though in much the same way that 2 series defeats in a year hasn't made us a poor one.