The class of mid 00's

[Furball]

Up until his ton at the Oval against Pakistan, Cook was definitely in a "hmm, we might need to think about replacing this guy" trough of form. He'd been **** all summer, fairly arse against the Aussies in 2009 and hadn't scored a Test century at all in 2008.

 

[Howe_zat]

Had a good tour of SA in 2009/10 though.

It was actually his ton in Durban that made me stick with him, as he'd been woefully out of nick and was against a good attack but still managed to eke out a hundred anyway.

 

[SS1]

No doubt, Cook was on the verge of being dropped. He absolutely was so. Thankfully he got a score and he wasn't.

I honestly think this fella could break cricketing records and I mean Tendulkar style. He is insatiable for runs and he has relatively few weaknesses. Once he's in, he goes absolutely massive. He'll score 350 one day I don't doubt. Doesn't play outside his areas at all and is reliable for at least one score every Test.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Boycott is 15 years older than AB, and Barry Richards is ten. I don't consider them the same generation, nor for that matter do I consider Boycott even close to as good as Border.



So if I'm reading that right - are you seriously questioning Border's attitude, temperament and courage?

No, I just think there were a few other blokes who were better! Why do people only understand things in extremes? Never said Border turned into a cringing coward at the sight of a fast bowler! You know in between Donald Bradman and Marcus North is the realm where vast majority of great batsmen in the world exist.

It is also because Ponting came in at number 3 for most of his career and so he is competing with the king of all batsmen. Also at 4 you have G Chappell so where do you fit Ponting?

Border down and 5/6 doesn't have such strong competition

Well if Tendulkar can bat at number 6 in the All Time World XI, then Ponting can bat at 5 for Australia XI...plus All Time XI teams are never actually going to play cricket..but to have an Australian XI without Ponting is quite perplexing to me.

 

[Spark]

I find the assertion that you'll find batsmen higher on the "courage/attitude" scale than Border very hard to believe. That's basically what defined him as a batsman.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Quite scary that we are doing class of the 00's yet if you think about Joe Root who will probably figure in the next decades top players he wasn't even born when Tendulkar got his maiden test ton.

 

[The Sean]

No, I just think there were a few other blokes who were better! Why do people only understand things in extremes? Never said Border turned into a cringing coward at the sight of a fast bowler! You know in between Donald Bradman and Marcus North is the realm where vast majority of great batsmen in the world exist.

Missed my point.

I find the assertion that you'll find batsmen higher on the "courage/attitude" scale than Border very hard to believe. That's basically what defined him as a batsman.

Didn't miss my point.

 

[SFB]

Cook I think will have an understated legacy that will not be fully appreciated until long after he has retired. When I think of the Cook of the '06-'07 Ashes compared to the Cook from '09 til present, I am gobsmacked at the transformation.

 

[SeamUp]

Bump

Interesting looking back at this and where this group will go down in history.

Smith, Clarke and KP done - AB possibly too.

Just Cook & Amla left and their form drifts in and out these days.

 

[Howe_zat]

Generation gaps are pretty common in cricket, as far as the incredibly high bar of 'breaking records and being remembered as the best ever' goes.

There were a bunch of batsmen who played in the 70s and 80s that smashed batting records (Richards, Gavaskar, Border) but nobody who debuted 10 years later were making these records in the 90s. We had to wait for the Lara-Tendulkar generation to get there.

Similar thing happening now, nobody who debuted in the mid 2000s really got there (yeah Cook maybe, but that'd be quite different) and so we've got to wait for most likely one of the current big four to get up there.

 

[RK_123]

They all at one stage looked to be an ATG but now I dont see anyone really making it to the ATG status.

Tests:

Amla
KP
Cook
Clarke
ABD

Odis:

ABD
Amla
Clarke
KP

 

[_00_deathscar]

Surely ABD is an ODI ATG?

Amla might have been given more time - he got going in ODIs rather late.

 

[harsh.ag]

Amla got the closest but the last two years ploughed back his legend.

 

[OverratedSanity]

AB's definitely an odi atg.

He and Amla can get there in tests if they have a resurgence but it looks pretty unlikely.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If ABdV isn't an ODI great then literally no one is.

Average of 53 at a SR > 100. That's insane. If anything he's the GOAT ODI Batsman.

 

[_00_deathscar]

If ABdV isn't an ODI great then literally no one is.

Average of 53 at a SR > 100. That's insane. If anything he's the GOAT ODI Batsman.

Think he'd have to win something significant for that. But yes, he's certainly in the discussion.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

If ABdV isn't an ODI great then literally no one is.

Average of 53 at a SR > 100. That's insane. If anything he's the GOAT ODI Batsman.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he is GOAT in ODI's as some Aussies and Indians have great records too and actually did it in finals of world cups and things which helps count more for them.

 

[StephenZA]

Yes when the team fails it means that the player is less when compared to other players....

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wouldn't go as far as to say he is GOAT in ODI's as some Aussies and Indians have great records too and actually did it in finals of world cups and things which helps count more for them.

Other than Michael Bevan I don't think anyone else really challenges him that much. Consider that ABdV batted mostly in the middle order, which is much harder than opening or no. 3 (which are the ideal positions to bat in LO cricket). Batted a lot at the death as well and still had such a high average. Sure it gives you more not outs but you throw you're wicket away all the time.

And Bevan was a different era with very different scores being made so hard to compare.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Yes when the team fails it means that the player is less when compared to other players....

It's not his fault, but it will inevitably count against him when the other contemporaries he's up against have similar (maybe not S/R though) records but also have trophies to show for it.