***Official*** England in India

[smash84]

You'd have to dig up the posts (they'd be in the Aus/Ind tour thread) but I might have.

I'm certainly not overly shocked by the result, let's say.

Even after the first test of this series you are still not surprised that the series has panned out the way it has?

 

[Jono]

Yeah fair enough. PEWS picked Eng pre-series too so I guess there are some who expected this.

 

[Spark]

Oh, I'm surprised post 1st Test (mostly at Cook's insane form - you look at the other contributors and it's really just the usual suspects), but on a scale of "not surprised" to "holy **** a giant robot iguana just erupted from the ground", this is pretty low down.

It's the sort of surprise you expect to get fairly often when watching int'l cricket, let's say.

 

[smash84]

Oh, I'm surprised, but on a scale of "not surprised" to "holy **** a giant robot iguana just erupted from the ground", this is pretty low down.

I think the only way you will be surprised that much is if the bangers beat SA in SA these days in a 5 match test series

 

[ProteasFan]

these types of performances have been on the wall for India for a while now. Alot of players are there on Rep and not performances.

They need to shake the team up but I hope they don't damage Kohli's or Pujara's careers.

 

[Prince EWS]

You honestly picked England to beat India after the England vs. Pakistani series?

Well as you noted, I certainly did, and I posted in this thread about it. Not counting my chickens yet of course as it's only 2-1 with a Test to go but I think I've been vindicated so far. England batted like dicks against spin in the UAE but they actually bowled brilliantly and Ashwin/Ojha are certainly no Ajmal/Rehman, something people were very keen to overlook for some reason. Ajmal is a special bowler in the right conditions and while he would've dented England psychologically against spin going into this series, he makes Ashwin look like a park cricket bowler. It'd be like watching Warne run through a side and going into a series against them confident because you've got Upul Chandana to call upon.

Of course India's batting has actually been even worse than their bowling in the two Tests they've lost, but I don't think anyone is that surprised by a genuinely good bowling unit knocking over a batting lineup consisting purely of unproven players, dramatically declining former legends and Yuvraj Singh. What people are surprised about is England not completely rolling over and having their tummies tickled by barely Test standard spinners every innings because of what happened in the UAE, and I for one and not surprised in the slightest.

 

[Jono]

Ojha > Rehman imo,

Also Broad bowled ****house for England in the first two tests, and Finn was merely okay in the third test.

England's spin bowling won the second test and you were the one saying India want you to play 2 spinners and it'd be wrong for England to play them.

 

[Jono]

In fact, half this thread are eating humble pie with the fact that England playing 2 spinners is why India have struggled and England have done so well. If England had played Finn and Broad in Mumbai and Kolkata they would not have performed as well.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ojha > Rehman imo,

Also Broad bowled ****house for England in the first two tests, and Finn was merely okay in the third test.

England's spin bowling won the second test and you were the one saying India want you to play 2 spinners and it'd be wrong for England to play them.

I don't agree in the slightest (not surprised you think that as you've always rated Ojha a lot higher than I do, but then again it's probably part of why you're so surprised India are getting done here..) but either way the Pakistan spinners as a whole are definitely far, far better than the Indian spinners. It's something people have trouble accepting, probably because of history, but it's so clearly true that it's not funny. A lot of the wickets Rehman and Gul took during the UAE series were largely down the pressure being applied from Ajmal and India just weren't going to have that at their disposal.

This England team have always been very good at working at known weaknesses - what gets them is the unknown ones - and they were going to be facing a massive downgrade in spinners here, so I'm not surprised their better players have stood up.

 

[Jono]

You agree though that its not the fast bowling that has won England these two matches (though Jimmy was fantastic in the third test) but their spin bowling though right?

How anyone can say that hasn't been a surprise is beyond me. Especially when people were at pains to say that England playing two spinners would feed into India's hands (your tin foil post etc.).

So I understand you saying you figured England's batsmen would perform better against Ashwin/Ojha than Ajmal/Rehman, but then the owning of India's batsmen doesn't work at all considering England's fast bowling has showed up for one test out of three and yet they're dominating, when this good England bowling lineup you referred to didn't include Monty.

 

[Spark]

England's spinners were excellent in the UAE too, just to point out.

 

[Prince EWS]

In fact, half this thread are eating humble pie with the fact that England playing 2 spinners is why India have struggled and England have done so well. If England had played Finn and Broad in Mumbai and Kolkata they would not have performed as well.

Yeah I'm definitely up for a tasting there, no doubt. The reason I tipped an England win was the fact that I just didn't buy into the "won't be able to play Ashwin and Ojha in the subcontinent" thing though, and on that front I do feel vindicated. Their better players (Cook, Pietersen, Prior) have assessed that weakness and unsurprisingly done well against lesser bowlers.

I'm not surprised they've managed to score enough runs.
I'm not surprised they've bowled well enough.
I am surprised at the method of their bowling attack though, for sure.

 

[Jono]

Important to remember also that the Mumbai test was on a real bunsen. After seeing how that pitch played in the first innings, and with the series 1-0, I doubt anyone picked England to win that match, let alone absolutely slam India into the mat like they did. Ajmal or no Ajmal, Pakistan/UAE never produced a wicket like that against England, yet England stepped up on a turner and beat India at their own game.

Completely against the script.

 

[Jono]

England's spinners were excellent in the UAE too, just to point out.

Yet no one wanted Monty to play.

I am happy to accept that people predicted England to win, but that was no doubt at the hands of Anderson and Broad ripping out Indian wickets. The fact they have won without that is a credit to England, so I am actually complimenting them. They have been so impressive.

 

[Jono]

Yeah I'm definitely up for a tasting there, no doubt. The reason I tipped an England win was the fact that I just didn't buy into the "won't be able to play Ashwin and Ojha in the subcontinent" thing though, and on that front I do feel vindicated. Their better players (Cook, Pietersen, Prior) have assessed that weakness and unsurprisingly done well against lesser bowlers.

I'm not surprised they've managed to score enough runs.
I'm not surprised they've bowled well enough.
I am surprised at the method of their bowling attack though, for sure.

If you expected England to score their runs, even against Ashwin and Ojha, on the Mumbai wicket, then fair enough. You were on to it before anyone else.

The minute I saw the Mumbai wicket and 300 on the board I thought India were home.

 

[Prince EWS]

Important to remember also that the Mumbai test was on a real bunsen. After seeing how that pitch played in the first innings, and with the series 1-0, I doubt anyone picked England to win that match, let alone absolutely slam India into the mat like they did. Ajmal or no Ajmal, Pakistan/UAE never produced a wicket like that against England, yet England stepped up on a turner and beat India at their own game.

Completely against the script.

Yeah there have definitely be some surprisingly elements to the series.

I'm surprised Broad bowled such pies, injured or not.
I'm surprised Panesar has been so effective in India.
I'm surprised Kohli has been so poor.
I'm surprised Ashwin bowled as well as he did in the first innings of the series.
I'm surprised Zaheer got dropped.
I'm surprised Dhoni actually hit a 50 when his team needed runs.

I'm tasting at least the first two of those things, hard. I'll put my hand up. I'm not trying to be a hero, or claim I'm Nostradamus, or anything like that. I stuck my neck out on some things that turned out to be wrong; I do that a lot.

But in response to the question you asked Spark which made me reply in the first place:

You honestly picked England to beat India after the England vs. Pakistani series?

Yes; I did not expect anything like a repeat of that series.

 

[GIMH]

If you expected England to score their runs, even against Ashwin and Ojha, on the Mumbai wicket, then fair enough. You were on to it before anyone else.

The minute I saw the Mumbai wicket and 300 on the board I thought India were home.

Do you reckon the India players thought the same as you? Basically do you think complacency has played a part here?

 

[Prince EWS]

If you expected England to score their runs, even against Ashwin and Ojha, on the Mumbai wicket, then fair enough. You were on to it before anyone else.

The minute I saw the Mumbai wicket and 300 on the board I thought India were home.

I didn't actually see the start of the second Test because I was in Wauchope, ftr. I bet on England before the match and may have even made a post here saying they'd bounce back, although I appreciate that isn't the same thing as actually calling the big first innings after seeing the pitch.

 

[Jono]

Do you reckon the India players thought the same as you? Basically do you think complacency has played a part here?

Not really, and if it did, only a minor part. I think England have just been fantastic tbh.

Cook has obviously been extremely gun, and has MOTM locked up unless Pujara does something ridiculously awesome in the third... but KP turned this series. His knock should go down as one of the best in India in 20 years.

 

[Teja.]

I didn't actually see the start of the second Test because I was in Wauchope, ftr. I bet on England before the match and may have even made a post here saying they'd bounce back, although I appreciate that isn't the same thing as actually calling the big first innings after seeing the pitch.

England were paying something ridiculous like 19.00 pre-second test, weren't they? Imagine the odds for series win would've been even longer.

Good for you man.