***Official*** South Africa in Australia 2012

[Ruckus]

He'd average at least double that if he had to bowl to Victoria there rather than South Australia though.

Big fan of Butterworth, but debut Test at Adelaide? Nah.

He averages 16.92 at the MCG.

Don't get the hate for Butterworth frankly. I'm not just spewing out stats here, he's probably the bowler I've seen the most of in shield cricket in recent years, and I don't understand why people think he is so mediocre. Yeah he doesn't bowl much more than 130, but aside from that (it was what Hilf and Siddle were bowling last test anyway ha) he gets the basics right. His lines/lengths are usually impeccable, and often gets a good amount of movement from the pitch. He doesn't have much variation, but that's not the kind of bowler he is. If Hilf continues to bowl 130, then I don't see why as a direct substitution it isn't just better in every regard (including his batting).

 

[uvelocity]

Yeeouch. Wouldn't eat your meat either, to be fair.

hahahahaha

 

[Dan]

Thoughts on Jackson Bird?

Doubt he's worth a go at present, however he's had a gun start to his FC career, moves the ball and seems to have put on an added yard of pace this season.

 

[Ruckus]

Yeah wouldn't mind seeing Bird get a go either.

I haven't seen that much of Starc in the last year (only a little bit of limited overs stuff), but I still have doubts his consistency is where it needs to be. In all of the longer format domestic stuff in that time period (the current shield match included) he really hasn't done much of note at all (and has often had a poor economy). There's no doubt that he can produce some magic every now and again, and that probably goes a long way as an indication of his potential down the line, but if the wicket is very flat how do people really think he will fare?

 

[Top_Cat]

Don't mind Bird but Starc is definitely ahead at the minute and should be.

 

[Prince EWS]

He averages 16.92 at the MCG.

Yep; the MCG is a good bowling deck in Shield cricket. If he had to play against that batting lineup in Adelaide though he'd been average at best, IMO.

Don't get the hate for Butterworth frankly. I'm not just spewing out stats here, he's probably the bowler I've seen the most of in shield cricket in recent years, and I don't understand why people think he is so mediocre. Yeah he doesn't bowl much more than 130, but aside from that (it was what Hilf and Siddle were bowling last test anyway ha) he gets the basics right. His lines/lengths are usually impeccable, and often gets a good amount of movement from the pitch. He doesn't have much variation, but that's not the kind of bowler he is. If Hilf continues to bowl 130, then I don't see why as a direct substitution it isn't just better in every regard (including his batting).

Being accused of "Butterworth hate" is a new one for me. I don't reckon you'll find anyone on the forum (other than yourself, evidently) who rates the bloke more than I do, out of those who actually watch Shield cricket anyway. If you go have a gander at the pecking order thread I listed him pretty high, and I think he should be in the general Test frame, especially for some of the overseas Tests. Picking him in Adelaide (especially on debut) would be absurd though, frankly.

Again I don't want to mix up the formats of the game too much, and that's definitely not usually my go, but chaminda is right when he says the fact that Butterworth can't even get a game for Tasmania in one day cricket because the decks are better is telling. Yes, his skillset is better-suited to four day cricket than one day cricket in general, but the Test pitches are more like the Ryobi Cup pitches than the Shield pitches, so when Tasmania's hierarchy rightly rule him out because of those decks, it's worrying. More than anything I actually think it'd be grossly unfair to a guy who I think we should be considering for tours to England and South Africa to have his career ruined by an inevitable toothless Adelaide debut.

 

[Spikey]

Has "CW wags" just become a codeword for Cribb or something? Who else hrere actually thinks Cutting is ****?

i'm a strong believer he gets wickets though ****ty batsmen who can't handle his pace, which isn't that great. (tim cruickshank, tailenders)

 

[Ruckus]

Yep; the MCG is a good bowling deck in Shield cricket. If he had to play against that batting lineup in Adelaide though he'd been average at best, IMO.



Being accused of "Butterworth hate" is a new one for me. I don't reckon you'll find anyone on the forum (other than yourself, evidently) who rates the bloke more than I do, out of those who actually watch Shield cricket anyway. If you go have a gander at the pecking order thread I listed him pretty high, and I think he should be in the general Test frame, especially for some of the overseas Tests. Picking him in Adelaide (especially on debut) would be absurd though, frankly.

Again I don't want to mix up the formats of the game too much, and that's definitely not usually my go, but chaminda is right when he says the fact that Butterworth can't even get a game for Tasmania in one day cricket because the decks are better is telling. Yes, his skillset is better-suited to four day cricket than one day cricket in general, but the Test pitches are more like the Ryobi Cup pitches than the Shield pitches, so when Tasmania's hierarchy rightly rule him out because of those decks, it's worrying. More than anything I actually think it'd be grossly unfair to a guy who I think we should be considering for tours to England and South Africa to have his career ruined by an inevitable toothless Adelaide debut.

I didn't mean that at you btw. Don't see why it would be absurd for him to debut at Adelaide, because part of the reason I think he would be a good addition is the balance he adds. At worst he would probably hold up an end and build some pressure. If Hilf continues to bowl how he was though, he isn't providing strike power or building pressure despite his good economy (it's closer to how he was a year or two ago). I don't think a potential lack of 'options' would be that much of a concern either if Watson can bowl. Fair point about it maybe not be great for his prospective test career, although at this stage it looks like he might be a no-test wonder anyway so...

 

[marc71178]

When Mackay and Kline famously resisted the West Indies for the last session at Adelaide in 1960-61, one of the criticisms leveled at the visitors was that because they were so concerned at bowling as many overs as possible in the remaining time, they failed to actually bowl their best bowlers as often as they might have.

Didn't that also happen at Cardiff in 2009?

 

[Son Of Coco]

uv doesn't always get action, but when he does - mavis:

I like your tactics. I find it's often better not to wake them sometimes myself.

 

[howardj]

Meanwhile Starc turns in another nondescript performance

1 for 50 off 14

Look, I am not saying the guy is a donkey, but dont mix up his red ball and white ball performances

 

[benchmark00]

Meanwhile Starc turns in another nondescript performance

1 for 50 off 14

Look, I am not saying the guy is a donkey, but dont mix up his red ball and white ball performances

Howard, weren't you the one advocating Callum Ferguson's inclusion in the test team, despite his very poor shield record, because he 'looked at home' when he played ODI's? Now I'm not a Dulux paint expert, but don't they use white balls in ODI's?

 

[Spark]

More of a Wattyl man myself

 

[howardj]

Howard, weren't you the one advocating Callum Ferguson's inclusion in the test team, despite his very poor shield record, because he 'looked at home' when he played ODI's? Now I'm not a Dulux paint expert, but don't they use white balls in ODI's?

I will pay you that

The white ball however goes to the heart of the gap between Starc's performances in the two formats - he can make that thing talk in a way that he can't with the red ball

And I certainly want to avoid talking in extremes, and am careful to say that Starc has a ton of ability and is very capable

However, I just don't think he warrants a Test recall until we see a little bit more red ball field evidence

 

[Top_Cat]

Meanwhile Starc turns in another nondescript performance

1 for 50 off 14

Look, I am not saying the guy is a donkey, but dont mix up his red ball and white ball performances

CalFerg.

EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Bencheh!

 

[Top_Cat]

Chadd Sayers is taking some good wickets at the moment.

Just sayin'.

 

[Top_Cat]

I will pay you that

The white ball however goes to the heart of the gap between Starc's performances in the two formats - he can make that thing talk in a way that he can't with the red ball

And I certainly want to avoid talking in extremes, and am careful to say that Starc has a ton of ability and is very capable

However, I just don't think he warrants a Test recall until we see a little bit more red ball field evidence

tbh, though, lefties tend to be boom or bust sorts. It's harder to just do a job if you're a leftie because of the line you bowl; easier to leave a leftie if they aren't swinging it and if they are, BoomPfeiffer. It's harder for lefties to be 'in the game', so to speak.

 

[Ruckus]

Real pity Harris isn't fit atm. Would be about the best bowler available for a flat Adelaide wicket.

 

[Burgey]

Didn't that also happen at Cardiff in 2009?

Yeah I think it did to an extent.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

tbh, though, lefties tend to be boom or bust sorts. It's harder to just do a job if you're a leftie because of the line you bowl; easier to leave a leftie if they aren't swinging it and if they are, BoomPfeiffer. It's harder for lefties to be 'in the game', so to speak.

What if they go round the wicket? Were I a southpaw, that's what I'd do to all right handers by default.