The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Prince EWS]

Looks like really a tough choice between Sanga and Dravid. I think somehow both should be included in Asia XI, therefore I stand firmly on my chosen XI.

Yep. The reason Sanga doesn't keep for Sri Lanka is the fact that they realise they can get more out of him as a number three batsman. If you're not going to pick him as a number three batsman, or even if you would but recognise that you have someone else of a very similar quality, there is absolutely no reason at all not to give him the gloves and bat him a bit lower.

 

[kyear2]

Dravid is the better batsman, especially at 3, and Sangakkara, while not quite as good as Gilly was, was a more than competent keeper.

Asian XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Vijay Merchant / Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Javed Miandad
Kumar Sangakkara +
Mushtaq Mohammad
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Muttiah Muralitharan

 

[Jager]

Sangakkara was a very good wicket keeper. Just because he could bat doesn't mean his keeping was poor. Was about as good as Gilchrist with the gloves IMO.

Yeah I am in the wrong here, I actually rate Sanga's keeping as pretty decent, my apologies

would still take Engineer though.

 

[watson]

From 1965 to 1975 Engineer's most common batting position was opener, and he averaged 33.

In four of those years he averaged more than 40 runs against good opposition. Therefore, we can safely say that in the safe haven of No.7 he would have averaged about the same as Sangakkara did while keeping.

Therefore - Probable similar average, attacking batsman, and a better keeper by most accounts - Engineer over Sangakkara for me. But I would still want Sangakkara in the team as the best No.3 batsman.

 

[Kohli_fan]

1 Sunil Gavaskar
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Viv Richards
4 Sachin Tendulkar
5 Rahul Dravid
6 Brian Lara
7 M S Dhoni
8 Anil Kumble
9 Curtly Ambrose
10 Joel Garner
11 Sreesanth

 

[The Sean]

1 Sunil Gavaskar
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Viv Richards
4 Sachin Tendulkar
5 Rahul Dravid
6 Brian Lara
7 M S Dhoni
8 Anil Kumble
9 Curtly Ambrose
10 Joel Garner
11 Sreesanth

Your favourite XI?

 

[kyear2]

Would be even stranger than Jager's if it is.

 

[Red]

1 Sunil Gavaskar
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Viv Richards
4 Sachin Tendulkar
5 Rahul Dravid
6 Brian Lara
7 M S Dhoni
8 Anil Kumble
9 Curtly Ambrose
10 Joel Garner
11 Sreesanth

 

[The Sean]

If it's a personal favourite XI - which it surely must be as it's obviously not a greatest XI - then he's at liberty to choose whoever he likes.

 

[Prince EWS]

If it's a personal favourite XI - which it surely must be as it's obviously not a greatest XI - then he's at liberty to choose whoever he likes.

It was just a straight up troll.

 

[Jager]

Surprised Kohli didn't make the cut to be honest

 

[smash84]

 

[marc71178]

From 1965 to 1975 Engineer's most common batting position was opener, and he averaged 33.

In four of those years he averaged more than 40 runs against good opposition. Therefore, we can safely say that in the safe haven of No.7 he would have averaged about the same as Sangakkara did while keeping.

Based on what? Hunch and guesswork?

 

[fredfertang]

Farokh Engineer was one of my great heroes as a child, and just about my favourite batsman, with Harry Pilling and Clive Lloyd, but with 40 years hindsight I can be a bit more objective, and certainly for Lancashire most of the time he did rather flatter to deceive

 

[Dan]

A few random XIs from different countries that I'd like to see play:

England
Hobbs
Grace
Ranjitsinhji
Compton
Woolley
Stewart
Flintoff
Hollioake, B
Larwood
Verity
Barnes

Australia
Jackson
Trumper
Bradman
Macartney
McCabe
Gilchrist
Miller
Lindwall
Spofforth
Lillee
Grimmett

West Indies
Greenidge
Hunte
Headley
Richards
Worrell
Sobers
Walcott
Constantine
Marshall
Holding
Garner

South Africa
Richards
Mitchell
Barlow
Pollock
de Villiers
Faulkner
Rice
Lindsay
Procter
Le Roux
Van der Bijl

India
Gavaskar
Merchant
Dravid
Nawab of Pataudi
Hazare
Engineer
Dev
Nissar
Prassana
Gupte
Bedi

 

[watson]

Based on what? Hunch and guesswork?

Yes and no. It's part hunch, part commonsense.

Engineer averaged 40 runs 40% of the time (4 years out of 10). That doesn't sound a lot until you realise that many of those runs were made after keeping wicket all day then opening the batting.

With the relative luxury of batting at No.7 it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to work out that Engineer's average may have climbed an extra 7 runs if unburdened with facing the new ball, and hence coincided with Sangakkara's keeping average of 40.

Incidently marc, the what-ifs and guesswork are half-the-fun when it comes to thinking and writing about cricketers. If everyone on Cricketweb refused to speculate, then we all be gnawing our collective right-arms in boredom. There is also a difference between wild speculation, and speculation based on a little imagination and gentle massaging of the numbers.

 

[Jager]

Yes and no. It's part hunch, part commonsense.

Engineer averaged 40 runs 40% of the time (4 years out of 10). That doesn't sound a lot until you realise that many of those runs were made after keeping wicket all day then opening the batting.

With the relative luxury of batting at No.7 it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to work out that Engineer's average may have climbed an extra 7 runs if unburdened with facing the new ball, and hence coincided with Sangakkara's keeping average of 40.

I can accept that logic, often use it myself despite it being deeply entrenched in guesswork

 

[watson]

Just double-checked Sangakkara's average as 'designated wicketkeeper' on Statsgura. It was 40.48.

Phew. I would hate to think that I was talking out of my arse the whole time

 

[Eds]

I think Sangakkara's batting average would have been [much] higher than 40 if he kept the gloves - in fact, I think he'd challenge Gilchrist as one of the greatest WK-batsmen ever. With that in mind, he'd be at 7 for me.

 

[watson]

A few random XIs from different countries that I'd like to see play:

England
Hobbs
Grace
Ranjitsinhji
Compton
Woolley
Stewart
Flintoff
Hollioake, B
Larwood
Verity
Barnes

Australia
Jackson
Trumper
Bradman
Macartney
McCabe
Gilchrist
Miller
Lindwall
Spofforth
Lillee
Grimmett

West Indies
Greenidge
Hunte
Headley
Richards
Worrell
Sobers
Walcott
Constantine
Marshall
Holding
Garner

South Africa
Richards
Mitchell
Barlow
Pollock
de Villiers
Faulkner
Rice
Lindsay
Procter
Le Roux
Van der Bijl

India
Gavaskar
Merchant
Dravid
Nawab of Pataudi
Hazare
Engineer
Dev
Nissar
Prassana
Gupte
Bedi

I'm glad to finally see a South African side with Barlow in it. I also like the idea of Barlow at No.3.Might remember that idea in the next Draft if I'm stuck for a batting-allrounder and already have openers.