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*Official* New Zealand Domestic Cricket Season 2012/2013

Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Mike5181 said:
Cumming looked completely out of his depth at test level tbh.
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DWTA, Cumming was hardly flash, but he had a better defensive technique than most openers who've played for New Zealand in recent years. Was bad luck that arguably his best innings for New Zealand (against a rampant Dale Steyn in 2007) was curtailed by a broken jaw. He was certainly better than the men who came after him: Matthew Bell, Jamie How, Aaron Redmond and Tim MacIntosh.
 
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Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Bahnz said:
DWTA, Cumming was hardly flash, but he had a better defensive technique than most openers who've played for New Zealand in recent years. Was bad luck that arguably his best innings for New Zealand (against a rampant Dale Steyn in 2007) was curtailed by a broken jaw. He was certainly better than the men who came after him: Matthew Bell, Jamie How, Aaron Redmond and Tim MacIntosh.
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Yeah, out of 'that generation' of openers, of which we can also include Papps and Ingram, I always definitely felt Cumming had the best setup against genuine pace, and his off stump judgement was good as well. He struggled with the ball swinging back in to him (especially Vaas IIRC?) and he hadn't really mastered domestic cricket yet when he first got the call up, but his forward/back footwork was always precise and early which is something all those others really struggled with.
 
Mike5181

Mike5181

International Captain
Bahnz said:
DWTA, Cumming was hardly flash, but he had a better defensive technique than most openers who've played for New Zealand in recent years. Was bad luck that arguably his best innings for New Zealand (against a rampant Dale Steyn in 2007) was curtailed by a broken jaw. He was certainly better than the men who came after him: Matthew Bell, Jamie How, Aaron Redmond and Tim MacIntosh.
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That's not really relevant to my comment. The only test standard opener we have had since Richardson is McCullum. Guptill is slowly getting there, I guess. Saying he was better than Bell, How, Redmond and Macintosh doesn't prove he was test standard though. Perhaps he was unlucky not to play a few more tests when all those players were in the team, but for someone that wasn't test standard, playing eleven test matches isn't so bad.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Mike5181 said:
That's not really relevant to my comment. The only test standard opener we have had since Richardson is McCullum. Guptill is slowly getting there, I guess. Saying he was better than Bell, How, Redmond and Macintosh doesn't prove he was test standard though. Perhaps he was unlucky not to play a few more tests when all those players were in the team, but for someone that wasn't test standard, playing eleven test matches isn't so bad.
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Well, I think he did look test standard, although only marginally. PEWS has already stated why I think that far more eloquently than I could hope to, so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, Wellington with a rapidly narrowing window of opportunity here to make something of this match.
 
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A

African Monkey

U19 Vice-Captain
Redmond's style of play at test level was very strange. He played like a stonewaller in his first 6 tests before smacking the ball all over the place at the Adelaide oval which funnily enough was his last test.

Cumming wasn't too bad. Could see off the new ball more often than not before getting out after being well set. Unlucky to have been cracked in the face by Steyn while on 48 where he looked well on his way.
 
S

SteveNZ

International Coach
Both Redmond and Cumming had incidents in their last Test that cost them playing more. Redmond was on about 80 odd and played a horrible shot straight down mid wicket's throat at the Adelaide Oval - possibly off Hauritz. He'd batted very well until then and was seemingly dropped for the shot. I remember Martin Crowe being very critical of that decision. Then Cumming was playing very well for 47 or so on a lively SA wicket against a red-hot Dale Steyn then wore one in the melon, and never got a look-in again.
 
F

Flametree

International 12th Man
Redmond was dropped both for his first and second innings dismissals in that match. Second innings, NZ had to bat two and a bit days to save the match - Redmond and How got through to stumps (Redmond took 12 off Lee's first over...) then the following morning :

"Good morning and welcome to the fourth day at the Adelaide Oval. This is Kanishkaa returning to take you through today as well. As usual, it's a very good morning to Raghav, Peter and Brydon.

It's a battle for survival really for New Zealand and like Australia, will need at least a couple of hundreds to frustrate the home side. The pitch's still good for batting so they just need to take it session by session.

9.1 Lee to Redmond, FOUR, extravagant shot to start off with, it's short of a length outside off and sits up for Redmond to flat-bat it past mid-off, it was well wide of the fielder anyway

9.2 Lee to Redmond, OUT, it doesn't take too long for Australia to strike, Lee bowls it fractionally short of a length outside off and tempts Redmond to go for the slash, he fails to keep it down however and Clarke at cover point takes it easily, Redmond could well have left it alone

AJ Redmond c Clarke b Lee 19 (40m 33b 4x4 0x6) SR: 57.57


Not exactly how Wright and Edgar would have approached the task....
 
S

SteveNZ

International Coach
I've let myself down on both fronts there - that wasn't Cumming's last Test when he was flattened by Steyn. He came back for a series two months later and struggled v Bangladesh. I'd say he lost a lot of confident when a ton in SA might have seen him kick on. Crazy, 10 of Cumming's 17 Test dismissals were lbw.

I thought at the time Redmond deserved a bit more leeway. He had produced some fight in a Test we well could have lost in Bangladesh, then struggled a bit in Australia but did make that 83 against a reasonable attack. Others have had a lot more of a crack in different circumstances.
 
S

SteveNZ

International Coach
I might just take a break from posting and pretending I know arse from elbow for a while...

In my defence, I did remember Crowe said something. That's not bad.

That retraction sounds very much like he was put up to it by SKY - ie Mexted being cut down for making critical comments about their product. He's gone from brickbats at Redmond to bouquets for every single man involved in the squad. And how I know it's fluff is that even Justin Vaughan gets a tick. And he's a dick.
 
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Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
SteveNZ said:
I might just take a break from posting and pretending I know arse from elbow for a while...

In my defence, I did remember Crowe said something. That's not bad.

That retraction sounds very much like he was put up to it by SKY - ie Mexted being cut down for making critical comments about their product. He's gone from brickbats at Redmond to bouquets for every single man involved in the squad. And how I know it's fluff is that even Justin Vaughan gets a tick. And he's a dick.
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I think part of his criticism of Redmond stemmed from the fact that he really rated McIntosh, who was his eventual replacement. Crowe was very keen for that change and worked as McIntosh's batting coach for a little while too.

That said, while Redmond was perhaps unlucky to be dropped, he was luckier to be selected in the first place IMO. I don't think he's ever been one of the best two openers in New Zealand. He got dropped from the Plunket Shield at one point last season didn't he? Staggering fall from grace, twin tons this week not withstanding.
 
S

SteveNZ

International Coach
Yeah, agreed on both. Crowe saw McIntosh as a pure Test opener and wanted him in. Obviously had a vested interest as well, some would say, but could also be said he knew of his talents and ability to occupy the crease.

I think we can all agree Redmond wasn't a long-term Test opener, even if it did seem harsh when he was dropped. Cumming, with the right assistance, I believe could have been.
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Nothing new on the pooch, so watched some of hutchisons first innings overs. Bowled well to raval, in fact had him at first slip off a no ball, also trouble cachopa early with quite a few french cuts.
Looks like he moves it away from lefties and into righties.
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Just to recap, Tastle put in the shade with the ball by Johnston, Jeets eclipsed as a threat by Woodcock, Kruger the one getting out to Woodcock, Bracewell wicketless...
 
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